Unpacked with Ron Harvey
People Always Matter. Join Ron as he unpacks leadership with his guests.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey
Crafting a Legacy of Influence through Heart-Driven Leadership
Have you ever stood at the crossroads of a major career decision, feeling the weight of uncertainty? Julian, a transformative figure who shifted from the meticulous world of commercial law to the empathetic realm of leadership coaching, joins us to discuss this pivotal moment in one's professional journey. His story is a beacon for those contemplating a leap toward their passions, illustrating the blend of bravery and self-discovery needed to embrace a life of purpose and influence.
Our conversation with Julian ventures into the heart of what it means to lead with authenticity, and how the struggle for balance and trust can shape not only your career but your entire life. We uncover the art of defining personal priorities and the significance of genuine connections within organizations. Julian's insights on mentorship, including how to find that guiding force to help navigate your path, offer a roadmap for anyone looking to enhance their leadership style or simply find their footing in new, challenging terrains.
Lastly, we broach the oft-overlooked topic of vulnerability in leadership, dismantling the misconception that asking for help signals weakness. Julian and I share our perspectives on the essential role of continuous practice, dedication, and the invisible support networks that bolster one's ascent to success. In closing, we invite you to consider how kindness and care are not just soft skills but foundational pillars for impactful leadership. This episode is for the courageous, the curious, and those ready to transform their professional lives with intention and heart.
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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”
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Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host leadership consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron's delighted to have you join us as he unpacks and shares his leadership experience, designed to help you in your leadership journey. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2:Good morning. This is Ron Harvey, the Vice President in the Chief Operating Officer of Global Core Strategies and Consulting, a leadership firm. We're based out of Columbia, south Carolina, and we spend all of our time helping organizations develop leaders and create a winning culture that people want to be a part of and work in. But what we also do is a podcast. We bring in guests from around the globe and share some of the best practices, let you behind the curtain, let you know some secret sauce every now and then about what we're doing and what we're hearing. But we call it Unpack with Ron Harvey because there is no question that's prescripted. We know one thing that we'll talk about will be leadership. Other than that, we're kind of going to have a real open, candid conversation, as we do with all of our guests, and so I'm super excited to have our guests here with us Julian, who's going to introduce himself and tell you what he does, and then we'll dive into some of our questions. So, julian, welcome, good to see you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, good to see you again. Maybe we should say we're going to peel back the curtain for the audience. This is the second time we're speaking, because the first time technical difficulties are in the way right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that happens with us and that's the unpacked part of it, because we tried this before and technical difficulties. And Julian reached out and said let's do this again and so we're doing this for the second time. So we never released the first one, but we're back again and happy to have you back. So share with the audience and the people that are watching and listening to us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so my background is in the law. I was a commercial lawyer in kind of big business for about 20 years and then, luckily, I've turned my time and attention to coaching. I think in my career I was looking for the sense of purpose and fulfillment I saw my dad have. He was actually a lawyer. He had that with the law. I never found it, but I have found it with coaching and so these days I'm coaching CEOs and senior leaders of small and medium sized businesses.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, where are you based out of, so people know as well.
Speaker 3:I am in sunny london uk not so sunny not so funny.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm in columbia, south carolina, julie and I think we got some of the london weather. It is a fog, light, mist, so I've been to london twice and so we have the london weather here in columbia, south carolina oh well, my apologies so you know that we really do have guests from around the globe that come in and they share and have fun and excitement.
Speaker 2:So we kind of have it lighthearted, but we talk about things that sometimes are difficult, that most people may not share in open forum. So when you think about it, so coming out of the law field, going into coaching and trying to find your passion and your love, what was it that made you realize that law wasn't it? What was happening with you at that place? Because sometimes there's leaders that are listening. They're doing this thing because they got to keep the lights on and got to pay bills, or they got a family and they do what they got to do to make sure their family is okay or all the responsibilities financially are done, but they're not happy. Can you unpack for us what made you shift and what was the light bulb that came on that you took the risk to change?
Speaker 3:Yeah, funny you say that because literally just before this call I was talking with somebody I've met recently who does what I do in a kind of different way. She, she was a very, very experienced banker. She was in the world of kind of big banks and she kind of found a way. So to anybody that's listening out there, that is in that position that you've just explained, ron, it is possible to have a career transition. It's not easy, it requires a lot of things, but it is possible. So don't lose hope, please. If you're in that position, feeling low, think you've got nowhere to turn.
Speaker 3:For me it was a feeling, I think, ron, more than anything else. I didn't ever hate the law by no means, and there were plenty of times in there that I enjoyed myself. It was often kind of an intellectual challenge and a business challenge, because I worked in the intersection of law and business. But there was a feeling that I had throughout, which was that little voice in my head saying is this what I'm meant to be doing with my career? I mentioned earlier that my dad was a lawyer and he had such a passion for it. You could see, you know, as I was growing up, he loved it Around the dinner table. When I was growing up, conversations were dominated by my dad's stories in court, and he had such a sense of purpose and fulfillment from it, and I think it's only recently that I've had this thinking. That's what I had been looking for throughout my career.
Speaker 3:I didn't find it in the law, and I had a number of goes at getting out of the law over the years, always searching for the thing that I was meant to be doing Right. And then in 2018, I had a conversation with a business colleague. I was in the law and he was in the business and he said you should talk to my sister. She's just qualified as a coach and she may be able to help you. And that was it. It took two conversations for me to realize that it blew my mind Wow, I didn't realize coaching could be like this. I absolutely loved it and I decided then and there, that's what I wanted to do. So, again, you can make career transitions at any stage of life. I was in my early 40s early to mid 40s at the time, so it's never too late.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's so important because sometimes you think you're stuck there. Or you're getting older, you know, you get into your mid 40s and you realize, like who am I to really start over? You know, and how difficult is it going to be, and so forth. You're listening. Leadership is important that you're happy with what you're doing, because it's hard to help someone when you're not happy and you're going through the motions. And that's important for us to understand is how do you make sure, if you're in a leadership world, that you're happy to be doing what you do?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm not calling myself a great coach. I'm too humble for that. But every great coach has their own coach and I've had a number of different coaches, either kind of one to one or in in group settings. Since I became a coach and I think for my own development in every aspect of my life it's been fundamental- yes.
Speaker 2:So when someone's working with a coach, I mean I unpacked for a little while because people are listening and figuring out, because it's an investment, and often it's an investment in yourself. If you're working for an organization and they're going to cover the cost of it, but sometimes it's you paying for it how important is it to invest in yourself. For all leaders that are listening talk about investing in yourself. Whether that's going through school or getting coaching or whatever that thing may be. How important is it for leaders to invest in themselves.
Speaker 3:I didn't really understand the importance of it until I started doing it, understand the importance of it until I started doing it, and I have spent a lot of money over the years now on myself and it's the best investment that I've made. I think the growth that I've experienced, I feel has been exponential in so many different ways, both personally and professionally. There are so many different ways that you can invest in yourself, but I do think it's absolutely vital If you want to grow, if you want to develop, whether it's as a human being, a leader, human being, the whole thing. Investing in yourself is a non-negotiable.
Speaker 2:So most people think of let me invest in me as a leader. But there is this holistic approach of a human being being the leader, and sometimes I try to help people understand that it's all one and the same. You become a good human being and then you become a better leader. What are your thoughts around that? How would you unpack that when you're talking to people that want to separate professional from personal and I walk into office one way, but I'm at work a different way, and it's almost like they have two different personalities or two different ways of doing business? How do you help leaders understand that you're a human being and people want to know who you are, both personally and professionally, without oversharing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question. Where do I begin? So when I talk about the work I do, when I'm introducing myself to somebody for the first time, I do say, listen, there are different coaches, different horses with different courses. But my approach is that the context is business but the content is human. I'm coaching the human being in front of me and I think there are people out there that are different. They have a different persona in the office, yes, so the persona they adopt at home, let's say yes, and that can work for some people.
Speaker 3:I'm not denying that. I think it's exhausting to have to kind of split yourself like that, day after day after day, and it probably means that in the work context, in the business context, the leadership context, those people are doing it are not being their true, authentic selves, right? So on the one hand, it's almost as if this is probably too strong, I'm going to say they're almost like denying themselves in the daytime and and that comes with a heavy burden, I think but in terms of their leadership, if they're not being their true selves, they're probably not being the most effective leader that they can be as well well, yeah, I have to say yes, julian, because it's almost as though you're pretending to get through the process and it's hard to fake it for that long and be effective.
Speaker 2:So trying to fake it and be effective can be a very challenging obstacle for most of us or challenge ahead of us. So when you think about your journey, making the shift, and you look at leaders that's trying to do it they used to call it work-life balance. Yeah, I just call it balance. Yes, because a lot of leaders are giving you know all to their careers and may not be doing this as good as they want to or don't think there's a time. How do you manage to do both of those that balance? What advice do you share with leaders? How important that is for their health, their mental well-being and their success?
Speaker 3:So again, it's funny how conversations from earlier in the day are coming back into the conversation you and I are having today. One person's view of balance or harmony is not another person's view. It's a very subjective thing. I know people who are fathers like me, who have been happy to work that hard, that they don't see their kids when they leave the house in the morning and don't see them, you know, and they only spend time with their kids on the weekends and for them that's a choice that they've made and they're absolutely content with that. For me, I want to create a life where I work hard, I'm successful from a business perspective, but I also want to have time with my wife and my kids and my friends and my family and plenty of it. So I think, to answer your question, the first answer is well, figure out what you want.
Speaker 2:What's important to you.
Speaker 3:Whatever's important to you, it is possible to create it. And here's another important distinction I think that's not obvious to many people which is this is very, very kind of binary but there are two types of people One life happens to them, yes, and one that creates the life that they want to lead. And so, again, my message to anyone that's listening who's in the first one of those it is possible, however difficult it might seem, to create the life that you want to have.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and as you're listening, there are people that react to life and there are people that prepare for life. So you need to be reactive or proactive, and there are people that prepare for life. So you need to be reactive or proactive. You know, do you get in front of it and decide what you want this to look like and start building out a plan and how does it look and what does it require, or do you wait for it to happen? And then, all of a sudden, you start reacting to what's happening to you? And so I think, as you're looking at leadership, how proactive are you about what you're really trying to get accomplished accomplish? So I want to shift a little bit.
Speaker 2:I want to unpack something that's happening. You know, I'm seeing in my space and I'm seeing globally as well. Trust is at an all-time low or challenge for the workforce today, for society today. I mean, there's just so much social media that's out there. You don't know whether half of what you're seeing or what you're hearing and what's happening. How do you help organizations build trust or rebuild trust after it's broken?
Speaker 3:organizations build trust or rebuild trust after it's broken. It's very tough because you can spend years, months and years creating a culture, an organizational culture which is safe and kind of open and transparent, where there is trust, and you can destroy that in an instant with behavior. Yes, so how do you rebuild when, let's say, you're the leader and a certain behavior of yours has damaged trust? That is hard. That is hard and it takes work, and it takes commitment, and it takes more than anything else. It takes ownership is the word that I'm striving for. You need to own your mistake and you need to commit to everybody concerned that that mistake won't be repeated. And then your actions and your behaviors have to demonstrate, day after day after day after day, that you are true to your word.
Speaker 2:Yes, julian, and most people get frustrated because they think, well, I've apologized, I said I owned it, I won't do it again, and they expect for people to forgive immediately, like that day, and it takes time. You got to give the person that's been offended as much time as they need to allow you to rebuild, and sometimes we want instant fix it. I apologize today, you should forgive me and we should move forward today. And that's not really how it works. You got to give that person as much time as they need. It took a long time to build it. It's going to probably take twice as long, if not longer, to rebuild it.
Speaker 2:So you're going to have to be patient and you can't get frustrated and you can't dictate to them how soon they ought to just let it go.
Speaker 3:Correct. Patience is the key word there. Absolutely, we're on the same page with that.
Speaker 2:Mentorship. When you go down the lane of having mentors, do you highly recommend it and is it okay to have more than one mentor, because you know you hear different verses? What's your process or thought process around having a mentor and how do you decide who's going to be? How do you select the mentor?
Speaker 3:And Ron, when you say mentor, do you mean a mentor as distinguished from coach?
Speaker 2:Because I see the two as different.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So for me, the way I think about a mentor as opposed to a coach coach is somebody with particular experience in the industry or in the skill set that you're looking to kind of improve on. Yes, and how do you find the right mentor for you? I think, in the same way that you find anyone that you're kind of looking for, you have to do your research, you have to understand what it is you're looking for, you have to select a few people to talk to, because not everybody's going to be right, because, similar with coaching, the dynamic is everything. So you need to find somebody with who you can easily establish a rapport, somebody that clearly has the experience in the industry or the skills that you're looking to acquire, and then see how it goes.
Speaker 2:Yes, so Julian, phenomenal information. I want to unpack a little bit, because there's a distinction between coaching and mentoring. What would you share? Your philosophy, your concept around there there is a difference and I 100% agree with that. How do you help our audience understand the difference between the two?
Speaker 3:So for me, mentoring is much more advisory. So if I'm mentoring you, for example, I will be saying have you thought about this? I suggest you talk to him or her. These are the organizations you need to join. It's very directive For coaching. The way I approach it is if I'm coaching you, you have all the answers in there. Okay, and it's our job, we will co-create. Actually, let me go back a step. Another helpful distinction is between therapy and coaching, which is like a triangle here mentoring, therapy, coaching all three are similar, but they're all very different as well. So I kind of said a little bit about mentoring therapy. Again, the way I think about it is you're going into a person's past with a view to improving their present experience. Yes, with coaching you're looking at the present with nods to the past, but it's mainly focusing on the present to create or to co-create with a coach, the future that you want to create.
Speaker 2:Yes, and thank you for sharing the distinction between the three, because oftentimes it can feel almost like you're in either one of those at that moment when it's happening. I think if you're coaching, you want to know. You know that you're doing the right thing with your client, but also, if you're being coached, what the experience should be like, because experience, you know, will help you understand if it's what you want. And so, for those that are listening, understanding the three will be super, super important for you, but also understanding that most times you'll find a lot of effective leaders that have all three.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's very true.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so leaders, when you're listening, you're thinking about that's a lot of people in your life that's assisting you. It's really invested in you versus assisting you. So what's the investment that you want to put into yourself and different people? It's almost like you have different doctors for different things, or you have different people that come and do different things at your house, whether it's the lawn service or whether it's the car or whatever that thing may be. I mean, you have multiple people to help make life and make you better, and that's really what it is. So, and everybody you don't want a jack of all trades. Nobody can really wear all three of those hats so you know, just be really mindful of that.
Speaker 3:So let's talk about I'm sorry, can I? Can I interrupt because I love to bring in sports analogies? And so, for kind of leaders out there, let's talk about high performance, let's use that wording. We want to perform at our best. So let's look at the sports arena. If you think about sports people, they have coaches, they have physios, they have psychologists. All of these people work together in order to help you, as a sports person, get the very, very best out of yourself so you can perform at the highest level. And for me, it's no different when we're talking about high performing leaders.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and if you're listening, that's the real goal is for you to find and ensure that you're performing at your highest level possible and that continues to grow and evolve as you grow. And I love that you use the sports analogy because you find the people that are really good at sports. They normally have someone that's coaching them, that's in their corner in many different areas of their life. So it could be finance, it could be relationship, it could be health, it could be the sport itself. So there are many different things that people have. So, as you look at where you want to be, you know a year, two years or three years from now, who do you need to have that's assisting you, supporting you, co-creating with you. Because, as a coach, the coach should never be behind the wheel. You should always be in charge of your growth. When I first started getting the coach, I relied on them to do a lot and say hey, no, no, just like a gym, the equipment's here, but you got to get on the treadmill I love it.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so that's the part. When you're getting coach, please stay in the driver's seat, come prepared, have the agenda, what questions do you need? What are you trying to work on? And don't let coach drive that direction for you. The coach's job is to co-create and ask questions and help you get your best out of you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you've got to do the work. You've got to do the work.
Speaker 2:Yes, you've got to get on the equipment. I mean you can buy it and invest and you can have the best trainer in the world, but if you don't get on the equipment it's probably never going to give you the results that you're looking for. Let's say I'm in an organization, julian and I get promoted and now I'm in charge of the people that were my peers, which is a hard shift. How do you help leaders make that transition?
Speaker 3:Yeah, two words in my head Imposter syndrome. That is definitely something that they will be feeling in that situation, and so the first thing to acknowledge is that is completely normal. Yes, imposter syndrome tends to rear its head when you take yourself out of your comfort zone. I always think, if you have imposter syndrome, it's a good thing. Yes, because it means that you're growing, it means that you're challenging yourself or being challenged, and that's as human beings, it's a fundamental need. It's a fundamental need to want to be better, to want to grow and develop. Yeah, so for me and this is where it might get a little bit what's the word I'm looking for? The word doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:We have been taught that the secrets to leadership, the secrets to effective leadership, are out there somewhere. There's a whole industry around it how to be a great leader, how to be an effective leader, how to be a high-performing leader. There's books, there's videos, there's YouTube. You know all of it. Yes, but the key is not out there, it's in here. Yes, and one of my fundamental beliefs about the way we operate as human beings right coming back to that human being versus let's just focus on the business, human being versus let's just focus on the business is that, at our very core is where our wisdom is, where our love is, our connectedness is, our resilience is, and all of those things and more that I've described are the keys to being a great and effective leader. Keys to being a great and effective leader.
Speaker 3:But what happens is the human operating system being what it is. We get in our own way all the time Up here, because if you've ever stopped and tried to notice what's going on in there, it's a torrent of thinking all the time, and so when you then are put in a situation which is outside of your comfort zone, that torrent of thought, well, it's always there, but you become more aware of it, and then you start latching on to some of those thoughts, you start going down the rabbit hole with some of those thoughts, you start believing that some of those thoughts are true and you take yourself away from your very essence. And so, for me, one of the fundamental concepts that I will begin with clients in that position, ron, is let's understand how, the way we all operate. So if you understand how you operate, you can also understand how your peers might be operating in the face of you.
Speaker 3:Having now ascended to a leadership position. You know managing people who are once your peers. Business is personal. Business is done by human beings, and let's understand how human beings work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. I love that you started with understanding you first, because we spend a lot of time not judging and observing and assessing others, but I don't know if we spend enough time reflecting on us and who we are and what's important to us because we're taught to assess, assess, assess.
Speaker 2:But I don't know if we're taught to do that same assessment on us on a regular basis. And I call it just sitting with yourself and your thought and understanding. You you know it's amazing. I do this activity when I'm out doing speaking engagements and I will have two people to introduce themselves to each other and I say, hey, you can't talk about your family, can't talk about your job and you can't talk about your education, but I want you to introduce yourself to your partner.
Speaker 2:You'd be amazed how many ugly looks I get. Like how to nerve you to tell me to introduce myself? And I can't talk about all these things that make up who I am. And it's amazing because we've lost track of us, because we all of a sudden have a degree, we all of a sudden have a family, all of a sudden have a career, and we've wrapped our whole life around those three things and forget, like, what do you like to do? What are you really interested in? Who are you before you became all these other things and we lose sight of who we are. So I will tell you that.
Speaker 3:I love that you say start with you, and I think leadership does start with us. You kind of have to understand you before you try to lead others. Just, I want to add one more thing wrong, which is, as leaders, we may kind of be critical or judgmental about the people that we're leading, yes, but we are most critical and judgmental about ourselves. Yeah, whether we realize it or not, whether we realize it or not, and that's the place to begin.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, so I think you're ready to close out on Julian. If you had to leave the audience and the people that are listening with a couple of tips, what would you share with them for just takeaways you know about our conversation about leadership and there's no particular answer Just what would you share that you think will be relevant and helpful?
Speaker 3:So a couple of things. One is that last point that we were talking about, which is the context is business, but the content is human. Okay, to be the best leader you can be, you have to understand yourself first and foremost. Understand the way you work, understand the way you judge yourself, understand the way that you're not compassionate towards yourself, understand all the ways that you slow yourself down or you get in your own way.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Once you see all that, you can start to work on that and that will help you to become the best leader that you can be. So that's the first thing, and the second thing, I think, Ron, is about support. We're conditioned in the West I think, certainly in the UK and the US to believe that we have to do everything ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yes, right.
Speaker 3:Yes, nothing can be further from the truth. It's not weak to ask for help, right. It's actually the opposite. It's a sign of strength, so get people in your corner right, whether it's a coach, whether it's a therapist, whether it's a sign of strength, so get people in your corner right, whether it's a coach, whether it's a therapist, whether it's a mentor, whether it's you know community around you of like-minded people, whatever that looks like for you. Do that. You don't have to do it by yourself yes hashtag.
Speaker 2:don't do it alone you go. Don't do it alone, it is work, and you will never get as far as you probably could or be as good as you can be. Don't do it alone. And oftentimes what I found, Julian leaders will ask for help and then the help shows up and they've already like like they've done it. They like don't need the help. So first, build the muscle to ask for help. Second, humble yourself and appreciate and accept the help.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, and we said earlier, using that sport context or that gym context, you've got to do the work. Yes, and that work often is hard it is very hard. So if you're asking for help, you need to be committed yes To yourself. You've made the investment, so you need the commitment. The investment is the commitment, right. That's how you've got to do the work. There's no substitute.
Speaker 2:You know I share with. People say, unfortunately, the word success comes before work and I say no, you got to work to have success, so please commit to the work and there's not an overnight success. I think we watch people that man they like did that overnight. I say, well, probably a lot of overnights. You just didn't get to see them working in the practice. Most times people don't see your practice when they show up. They want to see you winning the game, but they forget how many hours you put into practicing. Whatever it is that you're trying, to make sure it's a good game or a good show or good results. So put the practice in there's no and make sure you practice it the right way. There's nothing worse than practicing it and you're practicing it the wrong way. That means you're going to show up doing it wrong. So practice it right. There used to be a saying. You know, practice makes perfect. I say perfect, practice makes perfect.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do karate, ron, a couple of times a week and our teacher always says to us, when we're doing drills together, if I'm not punching someone straight in the face for them to block, then I'm teaching myself bad habits. Yes, I'm not practicing in the right way. That's exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yes, you have to practice, the right way to get the results that you're looking for. So, julian, thank you so much for being a phenomenal guest. People want to reach out to you. You're coaching and I think think you know it's great to have different people available for coaching, also for podcasts. People watching the show and they're listening and they're asking for you, know, leaders, what's the best way to reach you? So if you can leave your contact number again so people know how to find you.
Speaker 3:It's really easy, ron. If you want to have a conversation with me, send me an email. Yes, I'm sure you'll put the email in the show notes, but just in case it's julian at jul juliankharriscouk.
Speaker 2:Yes yes, well, julian, thank you so much. I appreciate everything for you coming on and thank you for the second go-round and we got it right this time, so I appreciate it, but if there's anything that I can do for you or anywhere I can support, we'd love to.
Speaker 2:I believe in partnerships and relationships. They've helped us be super successful. We don't try to do it ourselves. There's too many brilliant people around us, so I try to leverage that. So anything that our community can do to support you as you do the work, let us know and I'll be happy to reach out to you again. So, thank you, and for everyone that's listening and watching us, I'll close out, like I said, ron Harvey, with Global Course Strategies and Consulting based out of Columbia, south Carolina, everything we do is around developing leaders and creating a culture that people want to be a part of.
Speaker 2:This thing is coming back into the workplace, called being nice, loving on people and taking care of people. We talk about it every day and I know leaders like love. Yeah, they kind of go together, hand in hand. There's love and leadership. So don't push back my word, but thank you so much for following us. We release a show every single Monday and we'd love for you to join us and support us and tell other people about us. And, by the way, if you're interested in being a guest, feel free to reach out to us. We love to have guests from around the globe with different perspectives on leadership and taking care of our teams.
Speaker 1:So until next time, thank, you for joining Julie and I as we wrap up our show for today. Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron unpacks sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are for the people you serve, because people always matter.
