Unpacked with Ron Harvey
People Always Matter. Join Ron as he unpacks leadership with his guests.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey
Unlocking Transformative Leadership Through Humility and Vulnerability
Unlock the secrets to transformative leadership with Ron Harvey and our esteemed guest, Dr. Jim Schleckser from the CEO Project. Discover how your leadership performance could be the game-changer that accounts for a staggering 40% of your company's outcomes. We'll explore the virtues of humility and the relentless pursuit of knowledge, revealing how these traits can pivot an organization toward success. Through our conversation, we aim to equip you with the tools to nurture and support emerging leaders, ensuring they thrive in their newfound roles.
As we continue our exploration, we tackle the power of vulnerability in leadership. Leadership can often intimidate, but by softening our approach and welcoming feedback, we build bridges rather than barriers. Jim and I discuss the art of owning mistakes and viewing feedback as the valuable gift it truly is. We'll also shed light on the importance of seeking diverse information sources to prevent data filtration and avoid critical decision-making pitfalls that can diminish leadership roles.
Lastly, we emphasize the vital role of trust and the significance of developing a robust leadership brand. From honing technical skills to learning from industry leaders and mastering executive gravitas, we provide actionable insights to elevate your leadership presence. Join us in celebrating the collaborative spirit of the Unpacked Podcast and the CEO Project, and stay inspired with weekly episodes offering grounded advice on navigating real leadership challenges. Remember, leadership isn't just about direction—it's about making a meaningful impact.
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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”
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Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host leadership consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron's delighted to have you join us as he unpacks and shares his leadership experience, designed to help you in your leadership journey. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2:Good morning. This is Ron Harvey. I'm the vice president, the chief operating officer for Global Core Strategies and Consulting, which is a leadership development firm. We spend all of our time helping to create a winning culture in the workplace by really helping enhance the leadership skills of the people that run those organizations, and so we spend all of our time really. How do we help leaders be more effective, that people want to work with them, support them on their vision and their goals to drive the organization to success? So we do know that there's a huge concern around leadership today, as we look at it, and how do we help. And so this entire podcast and our company spends time and we invite guests from around the world. That's going to really let you behind the curtain. That's why it's called Unpacked.
Speaker 2:We don't know what the next question will be. We do know we'll talk about leadership, so hang in with us, but we don't have any pre-positioned questions. All of our guests come on and they'll share real. They're transparent, they're open and they're honest about what's working, what's not working, what are the challenges how you can actually use today, and we want you to use them, we want you to leverage us. We both run businesses, so you'll be excited about my guest that's on with us today. We're going to share some stuff, but we also are business owners. We do exactly what you do every day we lead companies and we take care of teams and we partner with organizations, but we build the business. So anything that you hear and you Jim to the podcast and he'll share who he is and the best way to contact him and what he does as a company. We'll get into some questions and then we'll talk about how to reach us again. At the end, jim, let me hand you the microphone.
Speaker 3:Hey, thanks a lot, ron Jim Schleckser. I run the CEO Project. We focus on CEO leadership specifically and you'd think, wow, they get to that level and they must know everything about leadership. But I can guarantee you they don't. And, honestly, the good ones are constantly learning. They're like, well, I think I know a bunch, but I'm sure there's a bunch I don't know. And that's really where we help them, and we do it through two vehicles. We do CEO advisory boards. They look like peer groups or mastermind groups, whatever words you use or we cluster them with seven or eight other really high performing CEOs their size. And then the other is we have advisors that not only run those groups but work with them one-on-one, and all these advisors are former CEOs. So they go. Hey, I know what you're going through because I went through exactly the same thing and our website is theceoprojectcom and all the details are there if somebody wanted to get a hold of us.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, Jim, thank you. I love that you leaned in and said that the good ones know that they are constantly learning and so, as we talk about that, so we're looking at leadership across the landscape. You know, I follow the John Maxwell team. They do a phenomenal job with some of the work that they're doing and one of the things he says always you know everything rises and falls on leadership and you spend a lot of time. So for CEOs in that space, when you think about leadership, why is it so relevant for an organization to be successful that the leader continues to grow?
Speaker 3:There's good research that shows that about 40% of an organization's outcome can be directly traced to the performance of the CEO or the leader, and so there aren't really any other jobs that have that kind of impact on the business. And so being a good leader is critical to good organizational performance. I could just tell you, if the organization's performing problem poorly, it's leadership, and if it's performing well, leadership had something to do with it. Dr Edward Deming, who helped recreate the quality movement in Japan and later in the US, he said all problems are management's fault, like we can't. Well, workers don't understand. Why don't they understand you didn't teach them? Well, they're not following the procedure, why You're not making it easy? Well, you know, it's always, always management's fault.
Speaker 3:And so we're not humble and saying, okay, we own it, we screwed up and wanting to constantly learn to become better, which goes with that humility. You know you're going to affect the organizational performance when we see arrogance and a lack of learning going together. Right, we've all met some CEOs that are kind of, or even just other leaders that are arrogant. Well, that basically says I have all the answers, and that is a lack of humility that will affect the organization. And then maybe the last one is you know, as a modeling, if you're not learning as the leader, what do you think? Everybody who works for you is doing? Probably the same thing, right? So if you want your organization to learn and get better, well, man, you better be doing the same thing or they're never going to do it. So I think it's just a super important trait for really good leaders is humility and learning.
Speaker 2:I'll have a conversation. Jim, when you think of the work that you're doing and you look at leadership whether it's CEO or you're in a senior leadership role, and you got promoted in an organization that you have been in for a while and now the buck stops with you basically Whether it's a department or whether it's in a division or whether it's the CEO how do you begin to grow in that role, because it can be very challenging to get promoted within. How do you help leaders realize that there's a different expectation in this new role?
Speaker 3:And I've had this happen. I was vice president of one organization briefly and immediately got promoted to president, and I'm like geez, all these people that I used to work with now work for me. You know, the best piece of advice I got was from a guy who was a former super high executive at Allied Signal. He was my boss and he said Jim, welcome to leadership. Everything matters. Everything matters how you show up, who you talk to, how you treat people with respect or not. Everything matters because they're all looking at you.
Speaker 3:And so I think you have to begin to emulate the best version of yourself in leadership, because when you're kind of down in the bowels of the machine, you don't have to be perfect every day. I mean, we try to, but everybody has a bad day. But when you're the leader, like everybody's looking at you right, and I used to have a boss that would say hello to him in the morning and then I would assess his attitude that day and then I'd decide if I was going to pitch something or not to him. When he comes in and he's whistling a tune, I'm like today's my day, man. So everybody's looking at you. And so I think you just have to be the best version of yourself at all times, because that's going to cascade in your organization. That's sort of move. One is you can't be a normal person anymore, you have to kind of live at a higher level, and there's a whole concept of earned authority in leadership and it's moral authority in that. I want to be like that person.
Speaker 2:Can you unpack that for a second? I love that you're saying that, but for our audience and everybody, what does that look like? Earn moral authority Because I can promote you. Don't mean the people are going to follow you.
Speaker 3:Nope, Nope. And I have a friend who says leader walking through the forest without followers is just a guy taking a walk. Yes, so you have to earn the right to be a leader. You really do have to earn it and you have to earn it every day. So moral authority is you do the right thing. You do the right thing when, even when nobody's watching, you treat people with respect, you try to optimize and improve yourself. They go.
Speaker 3:I love how Ron is just always trying to learn and come up with better ideas and push the edge, and I'd like to be like that guy. I love some of the traits of him and I'd love to be more like him. So you have to be special at some level and you have to work to be special and even like some people say, well, I'm just a normal person, Well, you don't have to be that razzmatazz leader. Good, solid, ethical quality people can be really, really good leaders because, shockingly, that's a little unique. And so that's what I mean by moral authority is like you're kind of morally unquestionable, and this is why when you see it's so tragic, when you see a moral lapse by a leader whether it's sex or drug, whatever their thing is that people? It's so disappointing to us because we go. They're supposed to be better than that right and they're not. It's heartbreaking and it damages their leadership brand for a very long time. It's hard to recover from that.
Speaker 2:I want to unpack something you said earlier, jim that leadership or moral authority. You got to work on gaining that every day. That breathes well and it's absolutely right, but it can be very frustrating. You work hard, you brush your butt, you've gotten to where you are, you have the title and now it's a struggle, feeling like you got to continue to impress your team every day when you feel like they should be impressing you to keep their job. But the role of who you are as a special person can you speak to? How does it? You got to constantly show to your team that you're worth following, because it can be tough. Some people are like well, why do I have to keep impressing them?
Speaker 3:Well, you don't have to do it every day, but the trend line ought to be up and to the right. You know what I mean. Like everybody does have a little bit of an off day. And my answer to well, I thought they were supposed to impress me yes, and you're supposed to impress them. This is a team right? Like they got their job, you got your job. Your job is to lead the organization. Get the right people on the bus, make sure we're heading in the right direction. Maybe take people off the bus if they're not the right people. Like you've got some hard, hard jobs that you have to do as a leader. Only you can do you better. Do them well. Because if you're poor at it, people go.
Speaker 3:Like I tell people if you've got a C player on the team like low performer, they're not hitting the mark, and you know it. And we all are human. We're like I'm going to try to work with him or her, I'm going to try to coach him up, but at some point you begin to expend political capital to keep that person in the company. Yes, and because everybody else knows they're a C player and they go. What is going on with Jim? That he hasn't made the move, like that's his darn job, and he's. Does he like this person? Is it his sister-in-law? Is it like what's going on? That she's still around here? And so that's my point about earning the authority right. You got to do the right thing at the right time. I'm all good with being human in that particular case, but eventually you got to make the move, because your authority just goes down every day. You don't do the right thing. So that's an example of it.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing. Can you unpack for us how important is it for leaders like for us at our level to show vulnerability and that we don't have all the answers and that we didn't always get it right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's super important because intrinsically, with the job first of all, you're probably a special person. If you got the job, whether you're smart or you're a super hard worker or whatever, your thing is right You're not completely normal. I used to think. When I first started in work, I said everybody wants to run the world just like I do. Yeah, we all do that, I know right. But you know, and I know now it's not true. Most people don't want. They want to do their job, go home at five and have a beer, and that's it right.
Speaker 3:And why vulnerability is important is because you become super intimidating. And I don't try to be intimidating, but I got some things that make me intimidating how quick I am and the fact that I have this big title, and so when I say something, people go okay, I guess that's it. And so you have to soften yourself as a leader because you are intrinsically intimidating to everybody on your team. You don't mean to be, you're not trying to be, but you are. And so, yeah, in order to avoid mistakes, if nothing else, you got to invite them in to say hey, and I usually start with something like I make lots of mistakes and what I'm counting on is for you guys to make sure we don't make a mistake because I did something stupid, because it can happen. You may think I make good decisions. I don't make good decisions all the time. I try like heck. But together, between you and me, we're going to make good decisions all the time. But I'm counting on you to do your part. So you've invited them in to say hey, hey, hey, that's a really bad idea. And when they do, here's the trick. You got to go simple. Thank you, man. You're right, that was a dumb idea. I appreciate your feedback. That's really awesome, and the concept is that feedback is a gift.
Speaker 3:I talk to people. They go. So what's the opposite of love? They go hate. I go nope, not hate, it's ambivalence, it's because love and hate are high energy states, like it's like there's a lot of energy around both of those. But if I just don't care anymore, I just don't care, I won't give you feedback. But if I love you meaning, and I mean like love, love, like you love your spouse, but like I have compassion for you, I go hey, ron, I've got broccoli in your teeth, man, you've got to get that out of there. I'm going to tell you, and so feedback is a gift. Somebody gives you feedback, even if you do not want to hear it. You've got to say thank you because they just gave you a gift, because it's hard. It's hard to tell the boss he's got broccoli in his teeth.
Speaker 2:I mean it really is. So it'd be amazing how many people don't tell their friends when they're sitting at the table with something like that. That's easy to say hey, this and those are the easy things, but we make it so difficult. What makes it difficult to give you got broccoli? What makes? What makes that? Because I see it all the time we watch it. You and I train on this stuff. Is it the relationship? Is it lack of confidence on my behalf? What makes it difficult to give feedback, for people to show up as their best?
Speaker 3:of saying it. I'm like if I tell him he's going to be embarrassed and but yet when you've got this attitude of gratitude like oh, wow, mustard, hey man, thank you, jeez, I got to get that cleaned up Right. As long as your response is always, always, always positive and thank you, people are gonna be happy to give you feedback. I think it's the people that either would be like they got super embarrassed and they can't even show their face anymore, or they respond negatively. We've got some people out there that I give you feedback that maybe, ron, you don't want to hear. You go. What are you talking about? Like you're crazy saying that stuff to me. I don't know what you're thinking when you say that and I'm like man, I'm never giving him feedback again right.
Speaker 3:So you just trained me.
Speaker 2:I love that you're saying that because, as a CEO, your leadership role. I love that you're saying that because, as a CEO, the leadership role the title comes with some intimidation Because when you talk about, hey, just the fact that this is who you are, not as an individual, but the position that you sit in when you show up, there's some things that come along with that position that you inherit, and I love that you say you got to soften who you are so people can, you can be accessible. What are some things that you're noticing for CEOs? You've done a phenomenal job around the CEO project. You know so team, go out and look at what he's doing, because this is a huge, important piece of your growth and development. What are some things you're seeing consistently across the board? What are the top three things that we're making as leaders when we're running organizations?
Speaker 3:What's showing up for you in the course of your work. I think I did an article a while ago about the 10 big mistakes, so we could do 30 minutes on that, but I'll give you a couple of the big ones. I think invulnerability, which is the lack of humility and the lack of learning and so forth, is a big one. You are highly, highly exposed as a leader. If you're not engaging your team to help you avoid mistakes, you're going to make mistakes. One of them is going to be fatal and that's going to be the end of you in the fancy job. Alongside of that, I think you've got to be really careful about multiple information sources when you do your job. So I see CEOs what does that mean?
Speaker 2:when you say multiple information sources, can you unpack that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, as you go up an organization, get to an organization of scale, hundreds, thousands, whatever the number is, your information is what I call pre-chewed, in other words, it's been through a couple of layers, it's sort of been scrubbed and manipulated and it's presented and sometimes with political actors to try to get you to make a certain decision. So it's not raw data, it's not. Let me put my hands on this and figure out what's going on. They are sort of guiding you to an answer as it goes up the organization and so that's certainly one source of data. But then I'm about like you go down and talk to the troops, you go walk the floor, go find out what's really going on. Go pop into some offices and hear the real story. Or hey, I saw that report. Give me a little more information about that. I don't understand what you're really going after. Hear it from the horses out or customers. And we've got a great relationship with this customer. They love us.
Speaker 3:Ron, this is amazing. I go, you know what? Let me pop in on the next sales call. Let me just sit in on that and see how that's going. You got to get some real information from multiple sources so you have a genuine picture of reality. Yes, because you have a distorted picture of reality, you're going to make the wrong decisions. So you got to get all the data, and I don't mean go crazy, but enough that you go like, okay, I got the real picture of what's going on here, then you can make your decisions. Yeah, so that's what I mean by multiple data sources. This is more, more important as you get bigger, probably, right yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for impacting and for those of you to listen. This is so important because, depending what level people are in organizations and who you are and what jim said is, how human are you? And soften your approach. Because even if you do some of that, jim, if you have a hard approach, people won't talk around you anyway and you can go to all those sources. So you got to make sure that if people are quiet, what do you change? Because we'll get comfortable, but why won't they talk to me? That's something you have to figure out, and you got to look at who you are and how you're showing up, and so I think that's work on, and that can be very hard and frustrating, because you may be really good hearted but your approach hasn't come across, that you're accessible, that you're literally listening to people, and I've watched that. That's a hard tug of war, sometimes like you want to do it, but the way you try to land that airplane is always not really really healthy.
Speaker 3:It's a slam down on the runway and that doesn't feel good yeah, yeah, and I think I mean we learned it as we went up, you know, through our organizations, about how people are. I guess that's the way we do it. We're kind of tough and show up in the suit and formal and that's a 1950s style of leadership, done work. So, yeah, I think it's real important how you show up with people and be your genuine self if you make a mistake in organization, that trust is broken.
Speaker 2:What are some things you're learning about? Because it does happen you'll make mistakes and there'll be some people that lose trust in you at that moment. Yep, how do you re-establish trust once it's broken? As a leader?
Speaker 3:well, I think you start by owning the mistake and apologizing and people think like just this, start by owning the mistake and apologizing. And people think like just this whole thing about vulnerability but also apologizing, I'm going to lose leadership authority. That's not what the research says. People actually want to follow humans who have compassion. So when you go, hey, screwed up, I blew it. I said X was going to happen. It didn't happen. I tried like heck didn't and I just screwed up and I own it.
Speaker 3:All I can tell you is I'm going to try to do better going forward and I hope you can accept my apology, but I messed up. There's your first move every time. You just got to own it. But then I tell people it's two to one. If it took a time period of one to earn a reputation, it takes twox that amount of time to reestablish. So let's say, for a couple of months, I'm a real son of a gun. Right, it's going to take double that for six months of absolutely consistent behavior to undo that lack of trust that you talked about.
Speaker 3:Now, some people, you may never get it back and I think at some point you got to say if you can't trust me, we can't work together. You can't have somebody on your leadership team, for example, that says you know, ron, I don't trust you. Well, you know what? I'm going to try, try, try, try, try, and at some point I go look, if I can't get you back, you shouldn't be here. You don't want to work for somebody you can't trust. You go find somebody else, right. And so either you're going to hold on to that and go work somewhere else, or we're going to find a way to get through this together and we're going to be good.
Speaker 3:But those are the only two choices available. They talk about the right people on the bus. Yes, you don't want people on the bus that are throwing rocks through the windows. They got to get them off the bus. So I'll work with you. I'll do my part if I screwed up, but at some point I'm going to go. Okay, you got to let me out of jail here. If you can't, then you need to go somewhere else.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I love that you're hitting both sides of it is that you want to earn it again, but you want to give people time to redevelop and reconnect with you as well, which is like you said. You know the two for one. You're going to have to do twice the amount of time that it took. If it took a month to build, it's going to take two months to rebuild. So you got to give people time to get back to that trust in peace. But I love it. If you realize that it's impossible and it's just not going to work, then you make that hard right decision as well that, as a leader, that's important for your own professional growth. How do you help me if I'm a new CEO, a new leader? What are some things? And I know you have a program you're running. What are the top three things you say? If you're new in a leadership role, executive level or CEO you would recommend that I start doing immediately to be effective.
Speaker 3:I think the first is assess your technical skill and, to the extent you don't have certain whether it's I don't understand finances, or I don't understand marketing, or whatever your thing is, you know go learn. Go read books, go to classes, go learn. I think the second thing and this is where we would show up is get around other people that are really good at this job Probably not in your business, not in your organization, other places and just go learn from them, because I think modeling is really really useful as we try to become good leaders. I'm going to tell you I went and got an MBA. It did not teach me how to be a CEO, it did not at all. So don't think you can go get an MBA and bam, I got it. I'm good to go.
Speaker 3:How did I become decent? I had some really really good leaders that worked underneath and I'm like man, I love how Paul does this and this and this, and Mike, I hated how he did that. So I'm never doing that and I mean you learn from everybody, right? So I think modeling is such an important and that's why I want you around other really good leaders that do kind of what you do, because that'll just make you better. So those would be two of my top ones is read learn, make you better. So those would be two of my top ones. Is read learn, find your technical stuff, but also then modeling other people that are really good at it, and you'd be a long ways home on those two items.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. I mean you shared really, really solid. You know, continue to learn and you do want to put yourself around people that can help you figure it out together without destroying you, you know. So I love the fact. Say, find some people that are doing it well, that can hold you accountable but also can help you grow, which is important when you're in an organization. You spend a lot of time around branding, helping CEOs recognize they do have a brand. How do you help them build their brand? I mean you do this professionally. What are some things that we can do to build our leadership brand as a CEO or an executive in the company?
Speaker 3:One of my most popular YouTube videos is about executive gravitas.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:And I think that's one of the elements you need to develop as a leader, which is how do I present with force when I need to right my ideas? Have weight, gravitas, gravity, weight it's the same thing right, and part of it is speak actually funny enough slowing down, using pauses to create emphasis on my ideas. People that are lower in organizations speak quickly because they try to suck all the air out because they're afraid of stopping because somebody might interrupt them. You watch people at top levels of organization. They go, ron.
Speaker 3:What I want to talk about is our growth, because we really haven't been hitting our numbers in the last year and we need to fix that. Like you know, I just stopped and I just hit a couple of items. I'm okay with a little air dead air in there, because it adds weight to what I'm saying. There's a, for example I think also this is male and female to some extent bringing your voice down a little bit. So can you imagine if I said it like this hey, ron, ron, what I want to talk about is, you know, let's grow the business and you'd be like man, this guy, I just can't even listen to him, right? So, just taking it down a little bit. Just slowing it down, taking it down. That creates weight and gravitas. People will listen to you and give your ideas weight, and that's, by the way, wherever you are in the organization. But definitely as you go up, you need to develop that gravitas so people listen to you. I love it.
Speaker 2:So, as we come to a close, on the gym, you're running a program. You run a company as well, any program that you think is helpful, that you want to share with the audience. And then how do people reach out to you? If they want to bring you on a podcast, or they want to leverage your services or find out more from you, what's the best way to reach you?
Speaker 3:We do work with CEOs of growth companies $20 million to $2 billion. We help the CEOs become better so they can make the organizations better. We do that with these mastermind groups and one-on-one advising, and you can find out everything you need at theceoprojectcom. I'll make an offer. I wrote a book called Great CEOs Are Lazy, which talks about how to be a really effective CEO. I will offer the first chapter digital for free, If you want to. Just send me an email at jim at theceoprojectcom. We will respond with a first chapter of that book, digital copy all yours, free for anybody, any one of your listeners, Ron.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you. I love when guests come on and they offer, which I love about this community. Leaders often offer something, they give something away, so say, hey, this is helpful, go do it. Because, as I grew up as a kid, I would see people doing things and I'm like, hey, how do I learn that? And they wouldn't share it. They're like, no, think you do have to pay for some things, but you shouldn't have to pay for everything. So I love that you're offering something. Say, hey, here's a good start for you, and if you love what you say, then purchase the book, but I'll give you something to get you started. You know, when you think about the people that you really want to work with in the companies, what's the ideal client for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, any CEO that is a learner that wants to have direct feedback probably doesn't have an effective board that gives them the feedback they need and they're going. You know I'm lonely and I don't know who the heck to talk to. Who's going to help me solve my problems? Because I spend my day helping other people solve their problems. Who's going to help me? We ought to talk to you because we've got an idea about how we could help you with that.
Speaker 2:Awesome, love it, love it. Thank you so much again for everyone that's listening. Hopefully we dropped something that added value to make a difference for you as a leader in your organization. The entire podcast is really about adding value for you to be successful in what you're trying to achieve and then have access to people like Gemini that you may want to reach out to, and the best way to find me is on our website you know global course strategies and consulting or you can find me on LinkedIn and I will tell you. For everyone that's listening, jim and I are probably on LinkedIn and you can reach out to us, but we'll push you to websites and we'll help answer any questions. Thank you for joining us. You know we're excited about the work that we did and what Jim is doing over at his organization. So thank y'all. We look forward to the next podcast, the next guest.
Speaker 1:So We'll be happy to help you. And until the next podcast, jim and I are signing off and thank you all for joining us today. Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron unpacks sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are, for the people you serve, because people always matter.
