Unpacked with Ron Harvey
People Always Matter. Join Ron as he unpacks leadership with his guests.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey
Trust and Reliability as Leadership Foundations
This episode features an in-depth discussion on the intersection of leadership and negotiation, emphasizing the critical skills needed for effective communication and relationship building. Ron and Andres explore how understanding negotiation dynamics can enhance a leader's effectiveness while providing practical strategies to navigate challenges in both realms.
• Exploring the role of leadership in effective negotiation
• Communication skills as the cornerstone of leadership
• The difference between selling and buying
• Managing fear and emotions in negotiation
• Importance of preparation in discussing money
• Building trust and social capital
• Strategies for establishing reliability in leadership and negotiation
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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
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The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host leadership consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron's delighted to have you join us as he unpacks and shares his leadership experience, designed to help you in your leadership journey. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2:Good morning. This is Ron Harvey, the Vice President and the Chief Operating Officer for Global Core Strategies, and we're a leadership development firm based out of Columbia, South Carolina. Our primary role in the organization is to help leaders be better connected to their workforce so they can take care of them while at the same time, being successful, profitable and productive. So we want leaders to be better connected to the organizations and the people that are counting on them, that they're responsible for. So we're based out of Columbus, South Carolina, but what I always do is we do a podcast and it's called Unpacked with Ron Harvey, and for those who have joined us before, thank you. And those that have joined us for the first time, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:I bring guests from around the world on Unpacked with Ron Harvey. The beauty of this is there are no questions in advance. We really have an on-spot, real-time, almost TV show, Fireside Chat and we talk about leadership, challenges and issues of success. We hope we give you something that makes you more effective at leading your organization, whether it's big, whether it's C-suite, whether it's entrepreneur, whatever that thing is on a non-profit. We hope we answer questions. So today I'm super excited to have someone joining us. You know, we were scheduled for a week ago and we couldn't get that because of some life happens and so I couldn't sit down with him last week. But we're here this week. He was very flexible. He said Ron, tell me when, tell me where I'll be there. So we're on this week and we're going to record with Andreas and he'll do his introduction and then we'll dive into our questions. So, Andreas, thank you for being flexible and thank you for being with us this morning.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me, Ronnie.
Speaker 2:Excited to chat today. Yes, yes, is there anything you'd like to share? You know I don't do a long intro because I always say nobody introduces you better than you. Can you tell them a little bit about who you are, what you want them to know, the business that you're in? I have your bio, but I have your bio. But I always afford the opportunity to my guests to share what they want to share with our audience.
Speaker 3:Sure, just for a little bit of context. So I run the Shapiro Negotiations Institute here, based in Baltimore, maryland, and we are a global negotiation and influence training consulting firm. So we basically work with typically larger kind of fortune 5,000 types, but companies of all sizes, and what we do is we train them how to negotiate whether it's sales, procurement leaders, project managers, program managers, engineers, any type of function across just about every industry, and we do it globally. So we're training seven languages and we've been around for 29 years now about to be 30. And so that's a little bit about kind of who we are and what context that we bring to that greenspan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. I mean, when I read the bio I'm like, okay, you know sales and marketing and negotiating. And I tell people, nothing happens in the world without a sale somewhere. There's always negotiations happening everywhere. So I'm sure we'll probably tap on that and we'll touch a little bit on what does that look like For this particular podcast and we'll go all over. It's unpacked, you know. So. When you think about leadership and the space that you've been in, you know you gave me a background. You'll travel to get to where you are and we'll have a great conversations in the green room. When you think about where you are now, how does leadership play a role in negotiations or sales? What does it?
Speaker 3:show up. So I mean leadership really. I think more than anything is a lot of things, but one of the key ones for me is about communication skills. Right, a really good leader is typically in the movies as someone who communicates very charismatically, and that might have something to do with it, but I think it's a person who asks questions, is curious and asks really questions that they're going to be listening to, absorbing, digesting, analyzing and then making good decisions based on, and so there's a lot of overlap between good negotiators and good leaders. So I think it shows up in everything, in the sense that you know not to be too extreme, but we're always negotiating, right, we're negotiating for someone to buy into an idea, we're negotiating to convince someone to come and recruit them to our company for more budget, and so it's not just a salesperson selling a new client and negotiating to sell a deal, but really we're always negotiating. But to me, leadership is a lot of crossover. It's really, at its core, good communication skills.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree 100%, and I'm glad you're tapping into that. There is this intersection of this, something that you use across the board in all industries. And when you think of the negotiating, I love the idea of negotiating, that we're always negotiating. What do leaders bring? When you say we're always negotiating, which I agree with, what have you seen that worked effectively? When someone is really hesitant to want to understand it, how do you help them begin to understand that it is always negotiating? So, whether it's a car, whether it's getting married, or whether it's you serving on the board, or whether it's you making a decision about something, negotiation is always in that conversation, even as we do the work to get you on the podcast, there's always hey, what time? What does it mean to me? How much time is it going to take? There's always this negotiating. How do you help leaders get better at negotiating?
Speaker 3:So it's a great question. So it's there because I think the first piece is understanding that we're always negotiating and that almost some of this that we're always selling right, we're selling our ideas and so but can be very impactful. So just the sidebar for a second. We work with a lot of professional service companies, things like the PWCs and Grant Thorntons and Deloittes of the world, and so what's interesting is when we do training if we were to call it sales training, they would be turned off immediately. But on negotiation training even though in some cases it's about landing new clients, expanding the work you do with them and, yes, negotiating better deals but the work you do with them and, yes, negotiating better deals but in many extents a very fine line there between selling and negotiating and there's just a lot more comfortable negotiating because as professionals they don't feel like they're selling your business. For them it feels a little bit kind of maybe either disingenuous or it changes the way they perceive themselves if they're selling and salespeople rather than potentially negotiating and managing those accounts. So it is interesting even the way it's kind of communicated to folks.
Speaker 3:I guess it starts there, but really to the heart of your question, the way we help leaders and just about everyone negotiate is. We take some of the fear out by really doing two things. One is giving them a process. It's something that's repeatable, they can go to and they can refer to. And then two kind of comes from. That is giving them confidence, right? So when you give them confidence, there's not as much fear entering a negotiation and whether it's you're buying a car, like you said, or negotiating on a board or whatever it may be and so if you do those two things, you typically get a little bit more comfortable and then, in turn, your performance improves.
Speaker 2:Can you dive a little deeper too? Because selling doesn't feel attractive all the time. And I tell people nobody really wants to be sold, but they like to buy everything. People hate to be sold. Even if you're on a car lot, you don't want people trying to sell you a car, even though you're there to buy a car. So the tactic of it feeling pushy and aggressive nobody really likes this idea. At least that's the feeling I get across society. Nobody likes to be sold, but we love to buy stuff. What's the distinction when it comes to language? Because you went there. How do you help leaders understand? Especially, we deal with a lot of entrepreneurs. We deal with leaders that are running organizations. How do you help them become more effective without feeling pushy or aggressive in the sales process?
Speaker 3:That reminds me of an example that my partner, jeff, always kind of brings up when he's talking about exactly that point. And you think of the last time you went to a clothing store, right, yeah, an example that anyone could relate to. You walk into a clothing store and let's say you're looking for a pair of pants, you're walking, you're looking around, you're trying to find, and the person will come to you and say may I help you? And what does just the whatever it was say no, I'm just looking. Which is funny, because really what that interaction should be is may I help you? Yes, I'm looking for this pair of pants in this color and this size. They help you. And so really, no, no, I don't want to tell you, because I don't want to be sold to right? Because if I told you, then you'd help me find what I'm looking for and then you'd help me get out of here faster and be more efficient. Yet we even just that kind of the feel of it. I'd rather find a pair of pants for myself rather than have you sign it for me, because I don't want to feel pressured to buy it, even though that's why I came in the first place.
Speaker 3:There definitely is a distinction, and I think one of the things that really separates being sold to buying is really kind of the perception of where the leverage is, if you will and it's a weird word to say but, for example, the best salespeople we know that work at the best sales organizations. When we train them, what we see is they really believe in the product. And so what's happening is they see that if I make this sale, I am genuinely helping this person. Either this business will flourish or I'm going to add tremendous amount of value. So it doesn't feel like there's this power imbalance.
Speaker 3:And so even in the way the conversations are had, in the whole interaction, it feels one certain way right, where both sides are benefiting One side's paying for something, the other side's getting a service or a product I benefiting, one side's paying for something, the other side's getting a service or a product. I think where it really feels like you're being sold to is where maybe there is an imbalance, right, if you go to a big box or you're thinking of buying a TV and so now you're getting pressured into it, or a car and so you're going through oh, let me talk to my manager, see what I can do, and all these kind of tactics that are happening. And so I think it's whether, if both sides believe there's value to the transaction for both sides one's paying, one's receiving value versus whether it's not totally certain that's the case. I think that's one of the things that separates those two situations.
Speaker 2:Can you tell the difference when you're negotiating, where they got to get this done or?
Speaker 3:else? Oh, absolutely. And two things that really kind of start from that point you just made are number one there's a lot of studies and you got probably lots of folks listening here today can experience this If you go to a company that are CarMax and you buy a car. Where you go to an organization where there's no commission, no negotiation, where you go to a dealership to buy and, say, a used car and there isn't a commission for the salesperson, Walk away and felt like you don't feel the difference right, and even if it just kind of happens, naturally they may not be kind of pushy, but there is a difference because their lives are impacted by the commission and in turn they behave differently.
Speaker 3:And so then I would say the point you just made about how different it feels. I think the same thing applies to leadership, Right, and so people can understand and see the difference very quickly when a leader is truly invested in their folks and is serving them and is listening to them, is making decisions based on what would be best for the organization, including them, or just making the best decisions based on their own best interest. And so I think that piece that you just said about selling and negotiating very, very much applies to leadership as well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I've been exposed to it and I've even made the mistake sometimes. Like you know, if it's close to your appraisal time or you're looking for your bonus, you'll find yourself leading people based on what you need, and people can feel that and it doesn't feel good, you know. So if you're in a leadership role and you're listening, you're watching that, there's a nice correlation between the two. You don't want to become the sales leader. Get what I want, get my promotion, get the recognition yeah, look at my name on the board. You want to really be of service to your people.
Speaker 2:So if you listen to this, there's an art of negotiating to get things done through people without them feeling like they're used or taken advantage of, just so you can feel good about yourself. So I love that you bring that up. What are some of the challenges when it comes to communication? You know, when it deals with negotiating or deals with me as a leader, what are some of the challenges? There's a deadline on me, there are some expectations on me. I got to get stuff done. How do I balance that evilly without becoming too aggressive?
Speaker 3:Certainly, I think we could talk about a couple and one thing before we go there I did want to mention I was struck with what you said. Is it kind of the intent? I think? If you folks listen, I think the biggest difference is intention, right? So if I'm only thinking about my business and Drisper is yours, and my intent is that, I think that's what really people feel, and so for leaders, I think that's the biggest point.
Speaker 3:As far as the challenges, there's quite a few, but I think one of the biggest challenges for both leadership and negotiation that people face is emotion. So you hear people say don't get emotional, and that's just simply not possible. Right, we're human, we're going to get emotional. So if you think of a very important decision you're going to make as a leader, or you think about you're negotiating a new job, right, an interview, you've been offered a job and you're negotiating that. So in those types of scenarios where it's really important to you, it is going to be emotional because that's such an impact on your life, and so what you're doing is not avoiding the emotion but managing it, and really what that means is you want to be thoughtful. For example, we tell folks as a very easy tip and you could do this for leadership or for negotiations, which is, before you get into the situation, write down what's really important to you, and even almost kind of a rough script. What are you going to say? So, in the example of negotiating a salary, it might be hey, what happens if they come in very high? Or you don't want to jump across the table or shake your hand. What happens if they come really low absolutely ridiculous and walk out. Why? Because then you've potentially ruined that opportunity when maybe you could have negotiated a better solution.
Speaker 3:It's same with leadership. You've got a very big decision you want to make, and so what you're doing, the reason you write it down is two things. One, it really gives you time to think about it, digest it, and it may have improved between when you wrote it and when you do it. But the second is it gives you the ability to kind of take a step back. Right, when you do that, when you write something down and you come back to it later, you realize if you take a step back, you know someone gives you a low ball off from a salary or, like I said, a big leadership situation you're involved in doesn't go the way the first reaction you expected. It makes you more likely to be able to take a pause and just realize look, this is a part of the situation, and negotiation is a process. These long, complicated situations are a process. They're not an event, right, they don't occur over one situation, one time, and so that is one challenge that we typically see often and one very easy solution that can help you do that.
Speaker 2:Thank you for bringing that up as I looked at your bio. How do you people really be able to talk about money and is the rule still don't say it first.
Speaker 3:So I think three things to think about there. Number one we talked about it already. It's kind of prepared script right. So if you've thought about the number and then, or whatever it is, you're going to say you've digested it, you slept on it, and then you say the next day or a couple of days later, it's going to sound a heck of a lot more confident, you're going to feel more confident. It's a very different feel.
Speaker 3:So it's kind of prepared script. Number two is you have to rely on precedents. So whenever you're going to say something and more poorly for this case, even if you're not just negotiating salary, you could be negotiating M&A deal, a very large transaction of any kind Whenever you're negotiating, you want to be able to refer to precedents and really that's. You know what's happened, that's similar before, and so in sports we do some work there. That would be another free agent that signed a similar deal, right. And when you're buying a house, the same thing occurs, right, is one of that same house. What do the neighbor's house sell for? So these are kind of these comparables.
Speaker 3:These precedents are really really important because they help you understand what the value is and they also, in many cases, help you potentially persuade the other side. And you've offered and say this is what I'm willing to pay. It may not be as powerful as if you compare it to this I'm willing to pay because and you provide two or three precedents that explain why that is your offer. And so I think those are two really important ones to think about, and I think I was going to do the third, but really the focus should be on those two right, having those precedents that you can refer to the justification. There's lots of studies that describe that it's actually a lot more persuasive because the brain no matter even if the kind of explanation isn't that powerful it actually kind of heuristically in the brain takes a shortcut to say oh okay, he or she has a good reason to think that, and so I'm just going to assume that's correct.
Speaker 2:You get a deal that's higher than you anticipated, how do you hold yourself back from it? It looked like you just won the lottery. Basically, you want to jump across and shake their hand and be overexcited because you're like man, there are like 20,000 of them all the way in that coffee company. You really want to jump across the desk. How do you reserve that?
Speaker 3:I love the question because folks you typically don't prepare for that, they don't think about it, right, they only expect, okay, what happens if it becomes really low, and you're really focusing on that. So I did realize that I didn't fully answer the one bit of your question, though of you know the first person who puts the number do they lose? And so to that, the kind of the short answer there is putting a number out there. If you have the precedence in place, which is why those are super important then you want to aim as high as you can supporting the precedence. But the reason that there's an advantage to not going first, right, to allowing the other side to go first, is exactly this piece that we're talking about, which is they may surprise you, right?
Speaker 3:And so let's say you're an M&A deal, you're buying another company and you're expecting the deal to close at $3 million, that you would be paying $3 million for that company. Well, the reality is they may actually ask for 2.75. Now, it may be unlikely, but it is possible. It's not zero, and so if you go first and you offer some other number that's higher or lower, you've actually removed the possibility that they may actually be willing to sell for less than you had offered, so that's really the value. There's information in an offer and that's why it's so important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a phenomenal way, I mean because it's real time and it's unpacking it For everyone that's listening. We have real conversations, we figure it out as we go through, so we unpack, you know. So you get a real answers from Andreas. You just don't know and oftentimes it's not just a cookie-cutter one answer for all scenarios. So I'm glad that you came back and said it depends, ron. Sometimes it's best not to go first, sometimes it is. It just depends if you've done your work to understand what all has happened. What does the data show. So I think it's important, if you listen to us, do the homework, make sure you have some precedence of what's actually happening that occurred in the past that you can use as backdrop information.
Speaker 3:The second question, then, is that we almost got to is okay. So then you get let's say, you do get pleasantly surprised, right, and so you get a pleasant surprise. How do you do it? And so the preparations were so important and that's the emotion piece. So you have not thought about, you're not prepared. So someone gives you a number. It's better than you expected.
Speaker 3:What's going to happen is you may potentially react in a way oh that's great, thank you very much, even if you're trying to kind of hold yourself back, and the thing that's hardest to control is actually kind of your body language, right, so your facial expressions, so if they're very, very kind of keen listeners and attention is being paid, what's going to happen is that will communicate a lot, and so this is where it's almost impossible. If you're very pleasantly surprised, that's made, it's important to you, like a large M&A deal or a salary negotiation, what's going to happen is you really need to have thought about it beforehand, almost made a decision tree. Okay, if the number's over this, if it's between this and this and it's less than this, because you've thought about it, your brain will react less quickly, and so you actually can be much more likely to be kind of a good poker player if you will a little bit more stoic and then not respond, right, so it allows you. Oh, okay, yeah, because you actually your brain's going to automatically go, oh, it's between this number and this number. And so, for example, one thing that we teach folks is a very kind of neutral response, almost you know, no matter what, in that middle spectrum where, if they give you an offer, your offer it's way better than you expected. That's interesting, it gives you a lot to think about, and then you can decide can you tell me a little bit more about that offer, right?
Speaker 3:So if it's a complicated offer that has multiple negotiables, they've given you one number. You may want to find out the rest, right, in an M&A deal, and you find out it's a $3 million deal. Well, what about? You know what timeframe do they want to close? You're buying a house, same, what would be the close date? And are there conditions to buy or sell the house? Those things right. And so even that response really signals nothing as little as thank you for the offer. You know, it gives me a lot to think about. Can you tell me a little bit more about the rest of the conditions, and so not simple to the other side. It's a very good offer, a very bad offer, and so that would be an example of if you thought about it in advance and how it's executed differently, it will give a very different feel to the other side.
Speaker 2:Very rarely we talk the art of negotiating. You know I have a sales background and learned a little bit about it, but not to the depth that you do. I look at Shark Tank and watch how people respond when the office is on the table. So that's my first thing, as you were speaking like man, I watched a lot of Shark Tank, like can they keep their composure, do they hold out and how do they get to that place of being comfortable? And like, hey, that's interesting. You know you start asking more questions versus yes, let's go cool without asking questions because there are other things that may be predicated on that offer. What other tips do you give for people that are in the space of negotiating?
Speaker 2:I'm a small business owner and when we go put contracts, proposals in front of our clients, you know, or before we even get there, oftentimes it's like they haven't thought of what this service is and how to buy from me. They don't really know the numbers to the degree that I would like for them to know the numbers, and I've walked into those situations. So I almost have to educate them without insulting them or making them think I'm overcharging. So I get stuck in. Hey, if it's too low in my head, they may not think it's worth what you know. Like that was low, which kind of bothers me sometimes, like if it's too low they don't think your service is good and if it's too high they think you're overpriced. Sometimes that's a dance in my head. Maybe some other people as well. How do you manage that? Like you're not coming in too low where it doesn't seem like it's worth the value, or you're coming in too high where you're overcharging and you're asking for too much.
Speaker 3:So I think one in the conversations you get to the price, the easier it is, the less likely that's going to happen, because the more time you've had a chance to kind of build value, so you almost think about it as 10% into the process. You get a price then based on very little. You're going to say, oh, it's too much or too little, but there's kind of less track record there. If 50% of the way in the process, then you get the price and there's enough track records for the value that the services could provide, and so there's less likely right that the price is one data point of 20 at that point rather than one of one if it's earlier on in the process. And so generally really our biggest advice there is around probing right, asking a lot of great questions, and we talk about how in negotiations, asking great questions is both the way to find out information which is critically critical.
Speaker 3:So I think that's one of the things that we're trying to do and I think that's one of the things that we're trying to do and I think that's one of the things that we're trying to do and I think that's one of the things that we're trying to do and I think that's one of the things that we're trying to do. And I think that's one of the things that we're trying to do and I think that's one of the thingsant, if you will right, you're willing to trust each other and potentially do some things that maybe aren't in the agreement or, you know, cut each other some slack or all the things that happen when negotiation, because there's a relationship in place, is really really critical. And so you know certainly you understand this from your sales experience that a really good salesperson, a good negotiator and a good leader can develop relationship quickly and connect with the other side, and a big part of that is asking great questions, right, and so that's one of the fundamental drivers in doing it, because, face it, who doesn't like someone who spends time asking questions and genuinely cares about your answers, right? That's kind of even this conversation. That's what it is.
Speaker 3:It's a fireside chat where both of us are totally invested. It changes kind of the quality of the conversation. Yeah, I love it is kind of the quality of the conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it and thank you for taking us to the relationship, because I tell people all the time, social capital is better sometimes than the degree that's hanging around that wall. Social capital matters. How do you get to the place of so? Numbers don't become an issue. I say, if you do social capital well, numbers don't become as powerful as you may think or distractor as much as they could be, because if you don't build a social capital, it can cause you to get derailed really, really quick. How do you help people build social capital or the relationship, if you will?
Speaker 3:So one of the things we talk about is, if you think of a relationship, one of the big goals of it and the outcomes of it, from a correlation perspective, is trust.
Speaker 3:You're building trust and credibility. Really, that just means that you care about the other side and what they have to say and what you may discuss, and so I think we have an equation that we talk about. It's got a few variables, but the ones that really stick out to me are, number one, the really around the intention. So do you have the best self-interest? You know, your own self-interest or theirs in mind? And we said earlier that you can feel that, and so that's why it's a big part of that, right. So if you're a thinking about the company versus also thinking about them, right that they feel like you would go to bat for them. So if there's going to be massive layoffs, you would go to bat for them. Or if you're going to make a change, you would buy them more time or give them a heads up in advance, or the things that a good leader might do. And so that intent and really is a really critical one right Is the interest and what's important to them. Number one. Number two is reliability right, as you can rely on people more, and so things that we talked about, these little things that make a big difference. So in conversations, for example, if you know, let's say for a second, you're an entrepreneur and you're pitching for, let's say, a big round and you raise funds, well, if you give yourself a few opportunities to be reliable, so I will give you a call next Tuesday to you know, chat about this. I'll send you this information by Thursday Next month when I get my quarterlies done, I'll send this over to you. What you're doing is you're creating opportunities where you can do what you said you were going to do, and that really demonstrates reliability. That goes a long way. So if the intention is positive, the reliability. And then there's are you bringing value to the table, right? So in any one of these unfortunately that's a reality you cannot avoid, right, and so we talked about it earlier that you know, in sales it makes you generous.
Speaker 3:There's really value in negotiating leadership, or you have to actually know what you're talking about from a leadership perspective, and so those are all really factors that go into it, and so if you're doing every one of those, and the final last thing is connection. And so connection is something where it's really driven by similarities. Naturally, some folks are good, trained at doing that, but it's about finding connections right. And so, oh, we're both Steelers fans, or oh, we both love to grow roses or we like to sail, or we have kids, or the connection points. And it's funny, you know, he was a very, very simple really and those connection points make us feel like, oh, they're kind of like me, and so very quickly, all of a sudden, you feel a little bit more comfortable. So if you're doing those things, you find some similarities, you show reliability, you've got their best interest in heart and there's some value there. Typically, those relationships will really blossom on a personal and professional level.
Speaker 2:Wow, I mean you dropped five things that are super important and I'll regertstate those fourths. How long does it take to do those five things you mentioned? To build trust it has to be built quick Intent being reliable, adding value and connection.
Speaker 3:I think it would be kind of like climbing a ladder, if you will, so you know, to get to the highest level, where you really trust someone right, where it's the kind of person that you know. Ron, I call you before I make any really big, important decision in my life. Well, it's at the top of the ladder. That'll take months, years, right, and so over a long period of time, but certainly that first step or two can be done very quickly, right, so very quickly. But the one thing I would say in all this, it's got to be genuine right. I think it's the one biggest thing it's important for you to take away, and you mentioned earlier, and so it's gotta be driven by Jen and Karasi, right, so connections that are made because you really care, not because you're kind of going through emotions, because you can really feel that.
Speaker 3:But I think that first rung up the ladder is really easy to do and it's just a matter of being curious about. You know what does the person care about, right, where are you based, and you know what do you care. Do you have family? Or you know what are your hobbies, or tell me more about what you do, and so you think about it. Humans have a lot more common that we have. Potentially, that's differing as far as even what we believe or feel, and so I think if you're thinking about making those connections, and the intent is to make those connections, it actually happens pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and I'm glad that you ran through that, because oftentimes we think it takes like I don't have the time and people hear that. What do you say to the person that makes that statement? Hey, you know what? I hear you, andreas, but I don't have the time to do this thing. What's your message to them?
Speaker 3:that you get from it If you don't have the time. I think life is very transactional, so forget about the fact that you're going to improve your performance. From a negotiation standpoint, leadership standpoint, the currency of those is potentially more important than a diploma years of experience. That would be equivalent of wealth, right? If you had 25 people, you could call on 10 people you could call on that. Have access to folks and important networks and they would do anything for you.
Speaker 3:That's worth a lot, right, it's not worth as much as a really good degree. You're starting a great company, so I think it's really understanding that, but ideally he's not doing the self-serving way, but instead I think, like, just like, if you have a spouse or a partner and you get more satisfaction when you share something with them, it'd be the same way, right, that if you go like it's very transactional, if you don't really connect with anybody, and so you're going to get more out of it, and your satisfaction will go up if you're enjoying it with other people, right, I mean, life's too short not to yes, yes, in your practice and your experiences between trust, paying attention to your intent being reliable, making sure you add value not just because sometimes you get stuck on the value piece like this is a good tool.
Speaker 2:Well, it's an added value. It doesn't mean it's for everyone. What do you see people getting stuck the most out of those five things? So trust, intent being reliable, adding value and connection what do you see people getting stuck at the most?
Speaker 3:That's a good question, I think, even if it's not maybe getting stuck, the most, definitely the easiest to fix, in my opinion, is the reliability. I mean everyone listening and you, ron, do you think about this, right? Thinking about the last time, whether you bought something or you called into customer service or you needed help with something, like I think all the times they call customer service and they say, oh, we'll call you back or we'll help you with this, so I'll send you an email. It doesn't happen Someone's selling you something and you say, look, I am interested, but you know, call me back in a month because the timing's not right or whatever. You think how many times they actually do that. It's very rare. The reliability whether that's the thing that maybe folks trip up on the most, I'm not sure, but it's unbelievably simple and what makes it incredible is to be a good leader, to be a good negotiator, to be a good salesperson, to be any of the good entrepreneur. It's such an easy thing to face. Just make sure that you do the things you said you were going to do. Yes, you give a vocal example.
Speaker 3:So I'm an adjunct at Hopkins here in Baltimore.
Speaker 3:At Johns Hopkins University, I teach a class on sports negotiation and every single year I've got, you know, between 15, 20ish students and then kind of a small task.
Speaker 3:I run in a session and every single year five or 10 of them say I really need your help getting a job, and so keep in touch.
Speaker 3:And out of those 10 that reach out the day after the training or the session's done or the course is done, then you know, three of them will reach out a month later and we'll get down to one by the year later. And so I've got, probably I've taught I think it's 10th year now and I've got about three or four students that still keep in touch and every one of those I continually go to bat for because they're reliable. So over that period of time to me I'm willing to put my name out for them because they've shown me reliability, I know what they said they were going to do, and that's a reflection of me when I recommend them through things. But for the other 10, and it's not a bad intention they do lean to reach out versus the 10 that reached out just the first time and never followed up again, and the difference is massive. And so I think if everyone's doing that, that's significant compound interest from relationship capital.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that you went there because if you listen to the podcast, the thing that is in your control is being reliable. So that's for your friends, that's for your personal relationship, that's for your professional relationships, that's for your professional relationships, that's for doing business. A data point came out of Deloitte I want to say, probably about a month ago, about that not being the strongest suit of what people are doing, and I use the phrase does your audio match your video? If you say it, can I actually see you do it? So, if you're listening, become more reliable and you'll probably outdo 80% of your competition. It's one of the things that changes drastically, gives you greater results faster.
Speaker 2:So, if you're going to invest in something out of the things that Andres is sharing, be reliable. Do what you say you're going to do all the time, not some of the times, not six visits like all the time. It changes your results really, really fast. So be reliable. I love that you shared that. Anything else that you haven't shared with us that you think is important for our audience, that you'd like to share before we ask for your contact information and the best way to leverage services or get in contact with you.
Speaker 3:I mean I love the way you just closed with somebody. That's so practical. I think you know it's interesting. We covered a lot in our time together. But the reliability piece, I love it because it's kind of like that phrase that people say now that you know comments isn't so common and I think you know reliability. It seems pretty simple to do what you say you're going to do, but very few people do it and you stand out by doing it, and so I think it's the simple things, it's the little things that make a big difference and when I was younger and earlier on in my writing, really understand and appreciate that as much as time goes on, everyone can kind of talk the talk with very few walks. You walk the walk and both in a consistent way, and so I love that piece of advice. It's extremely practical and extremely impactful.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love it. Thank you for sharing. You dropped it. I figured out how do we process it, but it is the thing that you can do that really separates you really really fast. So, Andres, thank you for your time today, For the audience and the people that are listening. You know, first of all, if there's something that you could offer, so what would be the reasons why they would call you? How can you help those of them? Let's say, hey, we actually need your service. What are the top three things, or two, whatever the number is for you that says hey, here's why you probably want to reach out to us If you ever encountered this, this or this.
Speaker 3:I love that question because people typically do come to us when there's a challenge, right. They just need help when things are going really well. So for us it's typically from a training side. It's there's a challenge around negotiations, your margins are decreasing, there's a new competitor in play, your procurement organization is looking to be upskilled, right, and so I think it's very clearly soft skills right, negotiation and influencing and just about every job function. So I think if those skills need to be improved and on the consulting side is if you need advice and assistance with a large negotiation coming up, and so we take it from M&A, player contract negotiations and everything in between.
Speaker 3:So those are the kind of the most common reasons people reach out to us Awesome, awesome. What's the best way to reach out to you? So the easiest really is kind of the one-stop shop. For us is the website. So wwwshapironegotiationscom. I think it's a great place that you can find a little bit more about us, our history, we work with, what we do and also reach out there. We got contact forms everywhere. It makes it easy to reach out and then it gets routed to the appropriate person. But that's the best place to start.
Speaker 2:I would say yes yes, and I'll tell you it works. I went to the website and did the research, so anything that you want you know. Andreas, appreciate so much for joining us and sharing. You're the first I've had on talking about the art of negotiating, how to really leverage that, and you dropped some really, really great nuggets. So remember the trust, be at the intention of how you're having these conversations. Be reliable which is the one that you're serving, versus like what's in it for you all the time and people don't want to hear what's in it for you and make sure you have a strong connection. Some of us drop connection and still try to get stuff done. The connection matters, so make sure you continue to connect with the people that you're trying to do business with.
Speaker 2:Again, this is Ron Harvey Unpacked with Ron Harvey podcast. Thank y'all for joining us. It's always a a pleasure to have phenomenal guests come on and give you something that makes a difference. You can use everything Andrea's talked about in your professional personal relationships across the board, whether you're selling something or you're just trying to have healthy relationships. So thank y'all for joining us. Again, andrea and I will say goodbye to each one of you and hopefully you tell someone else about the podcast and if you're interested in joining or you want to be a guest, just reach out to our team and they will take care of it and get you. Want to be a guest? Just reach out to our team and they will take care of it and get you, you know reach out to you and get it connected for us.
Speaker 1:So thank you all again for joining us. Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron unpacks sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are, for the people you serve, because people always matter.
