Unpacked with Ron Harvey
People Always Matter. Join Ron as he unpacks leadership with his guests.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey
From Epilepsy to Empowerment A Journey of Courage
This episode delves into the transformative leadership journey through personal resilience and emotional intelligence. Jonathan shares insights from his life-changing experience with epilepsy, emphasizing the significance of human connection, the role of feedback, and adapting to both challenges and technologies in leadership.
• Jonathan's background in leadership coaching
• The life-changing experience that led to writing "Seizing Today"
• The importance of human connection in overcoming adversity
• Emotional intelligence as a key leadership skill
• The impact of assumptions on team dynamics
• Practical tips for introverted leaders
• Embracing feedback for professional growth
• Navigating change and technology in leadership
• The value of mentorship and proactive engagement
• Key lessons on authenticity and adaptability in leadership
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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”
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Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host leadership consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron's delighted to have you join us as he unpacks and shares his leadership experience, designed to help you in your leadership journey. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2:Good morning. This is Ron Harvey, the Vice President and Chief Operating Officer for Global Course Strategies and Consulting. We're a leadership development firm based out of Columbia, south Carolina. For those of you that follow us know that's where we are. For those that are new, we enjoy what we do and our primary goal as a company is to make sure that we help leaders create a sustainable workforce by them getting better Keyword sustainable by the leader getting better, and we spend all our time helping them be more effective at being a better leader so their workforce is sustainable. But I always pause and we do recordings where we bring guests from around the world, all different backgrounds, because I want to always offer you the best. So we do unpack with Harvey Podcast and I'm super excited. I got you know, jonathan, on from Baltimore, the Maryland area, if you will, and I'll pause and hand him the microphone, because I always invite my guests to tell more about them that I share other than their name. So, jonathan, let me give you the microphone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Bethesda, Maryland, closer to DC than Baltimore. We're not too far from Baltimore, yes yes, yes, yes, bethesda.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that correction. He's in Bethesda, maryland.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, I am an executive leadership coach. I do a lot of leadership development work in general, outside of just the one-on-one coaching. I do some group coaching, I do a lot of facilitation and training. I speak on various leadership topics and I also have a book that was recently published a couple of weeks ago, actually called seizing today which I'm super excited about. So but I, like you, I every time I get up in the morning. I sort of pinched myself that I get to do this kind of work, cause it is, in my opinion, the best kind of work. Just giving back to the community and helping people achieve their goals is just so much fun for me. So thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Awesome, it's a pleasure, pleasure and thank you for joining. Congrats on the book that you have out and we'll make sure we highlight that if you get a copy of it or you have it and you can show people where, where is that? So we'll do it twice, you know. So you have the book out. How was that experience writing the book and getting it out? How was the experience?
Speaker 3:Quite an experience, and it is available on the typical sites Amazon, barnes, noble, et cetera. Yeah, so writing a book was never something that was on my bucket list, to be quite honest, but I had a bit of a life-changing experience around 30. And that sort of triggered the well. The thought came later than that, but the story around that started around 30 when I had my first seizure. I was soon after diagnosed with epilepsy and over the next 14, 15 years I had over 500 seizures, countless medical tests, I was in the hospital for over 40 days and nights. I had three brain surgeries.
Speaker 3:So quite the journey, and the book chronicles sort of all the things that happen along the way. But it's really all about resilience and courage and being able to, you know, get through the really difficult times. And how do we do that right? Not letting myself go down those negative rabbit holes, trying to maintain positivity, which at times was difficult. To be quite honest, part of the time that I was in the hospital, for those 40 days and nights, I had wires coming out of the back of my head connected to an EEG machine, so I couldn't actually move around unless a nurse came to wheel me or push me. So not a whole lot of independence.
Speaker 2:Wow. You never know what our guests are going to share. And thank you for the transparency because it's unpacked and oftentimes people see what you've become after all of that and leadership is a journey and being able to be resilient. Can you unpack? I mean, what were the things that you did to be right? Because it is tough. And thank you for being honest and transparent. It wasn't easy, so people that are listening, it's not easy but it's not impossible. What were the things that actually kept you grounded enough and staying in there?
Speaker 3:Because that sounds like it was a tough journey. Yeah, you know, I would really point to two things, and these are things that I really spent a lot of time researching, thinking about and I've written about them, I talk about them with my clients, and that's just the power of human connection and emotional intelligence. Those are really two things that I leaned into. Just being in a hospital for that long and going through what I went through, the people in my life that I was able to make and build and continue to have strong connections with, particularly in the hospital, was really just what got me through all this. I have a chapter in the book that I call the Five People Plus One you Meet in the Hospital and, in homage to Mitch Albom's, the Five People you Meet in Heaven. So I talk about these six people that touched me in different ways that helped me again get through this really, really challenging time. So it was really a focus on connections.
Speaker 3:And then the second piece of it emotional intelligence. You know it's very easy. As I mentioned earlier, it's just sort of go down these negative rabbit holes and get frustrated and angry. And why me, why me, why me? You know, at the end of the day, we all have our own stuff right. Everybody's got something. This is my something, and I'm not going to let my emotions get the best of me. I really focused on how do I stay calm, how do I stay strong through all of this. I know I can get through it. It's not going to be easy, so that was the second piece of it.
Speaker 2:Yes, though, connections and emotional challenges, which I love that you said it, because most of our guests talk about the power of connection and what it does for you as human beings. You know you're being something with other humans and so I'm glad that you're tapping into that and you talk about the resiliency. But you're coaching, you're training, you're developing. What lessons have you learned from your own experiences that you bring in real time, not out of an MBA program, not some academia answer, and those are great and those are fine, but I think there's a combination of that and real world experiences. How much have the experiences you've gone through made you better fit to be able to coach and lead and be a speaker on stage? How much of that actually contributed to who you are?
Speaker 3:today. I am very much a strong introvert. If I had my druthers, I could do anything with my time. I would sit on the couch and read a book, but yet I get up in front of very large groups all the time. I'm sort of this reluctant performer because, at the end of the day, that's what we do as facilitators, as speakers. We're performing, and that's just not natural for me. I've sort of shied away from the spotlight for so long in my life and one of my mantras this year was really leaning into the spotlight, and that's that's really changed things for me, especially with the book out.
Speaker 3:The other thing that I'll share that's not an MBA lesson, that's something that I've learned along the way, that I love to talk about, and it's related to connection is the biggest driver of disconnection. So we, you know, we can talk about what connection is and how you connect with people, but what prevents us from connecting with people? And in my opinion, the biggest thing that causes disconnection between people is assumptions. Right, and we do it all the time. We make assumptions based on what people look like, how they dress, how they talk, what they say, what they do, and it's all from our own lens, right. But instead of getting curious and asking questions to better understand okay, what did that person mean? Where is that person coming from? We make these assumptions, we jump to judgments. So I really try to work on okay, yes, we're all going to be judgmental, that's just who we are as humans. But let's take a step back. What am I missing? What else is going on with this person that I don't know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. Thank you for bringing that out, because you do. We focus on the connection piece, but what causes disconnection? I want to back up a little bit and unpack something. What are some tips that you can share with people that are introverted, like you are, to be able to show up and deliver and get past this thing, because I get it and a lot of introverts say, well, I can't do it, I can't do it, I can't do it. What are some practical steps that you've actually put in place where you got a book and it kind of course your hand a little bit, but what are the things that you do to help you be successful at not losing the fact that you're introverted but not losing your audience as well?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question. There's a variety of things. I really have to get myself in the right mindset going into it. You know, at this point in my career it's not nearly as challenging as it was earlier in my career to get up. For, you know, speaking in front of large groups I absolutely love it. I mean just the interaction with groups and the energy that the group has, the questions, the feedback. That's what really drives me. That gives me the energy to stay up there on stage for, you know, as long as I need to, or in front of groups for as long as I need to. It's that like I need something to come. I need that energy to come to me.
Speaker 3:I'm not, I don't have all that energy within. Like I said, I'd rather just be sitting on a couch reading a book. So for me, it's how do I engage my audience so that they're in it with me? Because if it's just me up there talking and I'm just looking at people staring at me, it's not fun, it's not gonna work. So it's really about how do I get it to be a two way conversation and get people to share their thoughts and push back on me too. And I always tell my groups, like you know, if you hear something that you disagree with, tell me, let's talk about it. I love that. I love when people have a different perspective. It's not, you know, just because I'm up here doesn't mean that I have all the answers and everything I'm saying is right.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love it. You went back to connection again, and so, even when you're on the stage and you're doing the speech, the energy is the connection between people, which is super important for all of us. Regardless of whether it's one person or 5,000 people, you know that connection matters for all of us. So for those of you that are listening, thinking a keynote doesn't need a connection we do. The computer doesn't need a connection we do. We need you to engage, we need you to participate, we need you to do and I've going to say feedback. How important is feedback for your growth, or for any of you's growth? I mean? So it sounds like on stage, you want to give you feedback, the pushback, the different perspective. How do you embrace feedback when you're supposed to be?
Speaker 3:the expert. Yeah, I love feedback good, bad or otherwise and the challenge for leaders. So often I hear this all the time I'm needy or that's weak BS like ask for it. Ask for it, I mean, because otherwise what happens is you question yourself and you know you're making up stories and right, sometimes it's just the other person's busy and they've just didn't even cross their mind.
Speaker 3:I was actually with a group I was doing a corporate offsite a couple weeks ago and the CEO admitted that. She said listen, one of her direct reports said I really need feedback, I need to know whether I'm doing a good job. I need to know if there's something I need to change. You know, and her point was that's just not my personality, that's not my style, like, if there's something wrong you'll hear from me, right, that's a big mismatch. But now both of them understand where they're coming from and they can both sort of meet in the middle. That's sort of the result of that conversation, right, I don't expect that everybody's going to just kind of alter their styles entirely, but once we understand where each one's coming from, then we can alter our style based on who it is that we're talking to or what they need.
Speaker 2:I love it being able to meet people where they are, make adjustments necessary for you to be effective versus comfortable, and so all the things that you're sharing on the Jonathan is you may be uncomfortable, but it may be necessary to get done what you're trying to get done. So leadership is not always comfortable. You may have to adjust and adapt and meet people where they are. How do you get to a place where you don't let that become a distraction from you being effective?
Speaker 3:I think the first thing is just recognizing it, acknowledging it. Right, we are going to have those judgments, no matter what. We can't change that, they're going to come up. But then what do we do with that? Right, and that's where I go to curiosity. It's okay. Well, my mind says they're wearing this or they're saying that, or they're doing this.
Speaker 3:I think it's this, but asking those powerful, open-ended questions to really understand where they're coming from. Because, again, I can't count the number of times where I've made a judgment in my head and then I've been curious and realized, wow, I was really wrong about that. So it's really about just get curious with that other person, and I wish everyone would do that right, because to me that's one of the biggest sources of why we, as a whatever it is right, I actually do I do an exercise with clients that I call uncommon commonalities, and it's really designed to drive that, to show people hey, you may not connect with this person because they're from a different place or they look different or they act different, but there's a lot more things that are similar about us than are different.
Speaker 2:I mean, you're saying a bunch of people that follow our podcast know that I love that language of who is in the circle that's different to you, and how do you learn about them? How do you get to the place as a leader? Oftentimes, when you make an assumption and you make a bad choice or decision or you say something, some leaders struggle with apologizing at that moment. How do you get stronger to begin to mend the fences, if you will as a leader, how do you get to where you can apologize authentically?
Speaker 3:professionally where I think you're weak or there's not something leaders should do. Yeah, I love this question because this comes up a lot and I feel very, very strongly about this. I think as leaders, we need to let and just humans, we need to let go of the notion of it is weak to apologize, to admit that we are wrong, bs. I'm a huge reader. I love Adam Grant in particular and his book not his most recent book, but the book before that Think Again really delves into this that we should be thinking like scientists. We should constantly be questioning what we think and what we're saying and looking at alternative possibilities, because we're not always going to be right.
Speaker 3:But what ends up happening so often is we're wrong and then we just double down because we don't want to admit that we're wrong, because that's weak. I think it's weak to double down If you know you're wrong. That's weak. It's the total opposite. I think it's weak to double down If you know you're wrong. That's weak. It's the total opposite. I think as a leader, you get a lot more respect from your people when you admit that you're wrong and that you move in the right direction from there.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love it because when you double down, that's when the gloves come off and everybody starts fighting Like, oh, that's the role you're going to play, okay, it's all, then let's go take these gloves off. Then they become more defensive. And so now you got two people that are doubling down and they'll know when to stop. I thought a little bit. I mean, you're running a company, you're writing books, you're on stages. What are some of the lessons you learned on the journey that's made you really good?
Speaker 3:Yeah, a couple of things that come to mind. First is it's something that I paid more attention to in the workplace, which was looking around at the people around me that were successful and finding the people that I really admired, that I wanted to be like, that I wanted to take a piece from. To me, it's not about well, here's this person. I want to be exactly like them. So let me switch to doing all the things that. No, I took a little bit from a lot of different people to mold my style, to mold how I led people, to mold how I operated. I think that's really important and it's sort of the flip side. Leaders forget a lot of times that their people are watching them. Everything they do. It's like your kids. Right, for those of you have kids, your kids are watching and listening to everything you do, whether you think they are or not, and they're taking something from that. But I think it's particularly important in leadership to recognize what are the things that are truly important to you and how do you mold that into your authentic style and you mentioned authenticity earlier. That's sort of the second piece of this. I think.
Speaker 3:So often it's so easy for us, whether as leaders or just in any role in our lives, to lose our authenticity because of other factors.
Speaker 3:And I think we really have to maintain that authenticity. And sometimes you know it's like anything else, we're going to get out of balance at times. But coming back to that, sometimes you know it's like anything else, we're going to get out of balance at times. But coming back to that, because if we try to be someone we're not, if we go against our values, there's going to be so much cognitive dissonance right when it's just it's not going to feel right and not to get political by any means. But you know, you see that a lot in politics or in any place where there's control or power or money, people are not authentic because it means that they can have more power, they can have more control or they can have more money right, yeah, and I'm glad you're bringing it up that you see, in every space of our society today, whether it's politics, whether it's school, whether it's education, whether it's CEOs or whether it's, you know, social media.
Speaker 2:I mean to bring up a point for everyone that's listening stuff is seen much faster by our society and some of that stuff doesn't necessarily. It shouldn't be on any screen, quite honestly, I mean. And so how much are you looking and watching social media? That can really be not even the truth. The image they put in front of you may not be the reality of what they're going through. So I will tell you, be super mindful of getting caught up in social media and everything that you think or everything that you do shouldn't be seen or heard. And I think we are so caught up in stuff. Everybody has a microphone. Now I think it gets us in trouble because everybody does have a microphone and everybody can be a news reporter with a flick of a phone and they can post it to the world really quick To that point.
Speaker 3:I talk about this a lot. It's very simple, but so important. And it's just because someone says something and they say it loudly or confidently doesn't mean that it's true. Yes, and that's especially on social media. That's how well. I saw it on social media, I saw it here, I read it there. Okay, where's our critical thinking right? Let's take a step back. Okay, yes, the person said it, they said it loudly, they said it confidently. They have a certain position in society. Let's do the research, let's make sure that what we're hearing is accurate, and I think that's the step that a lot of times, we miss.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome. I have two more questions here for us. Ai is changing the game. It's everywhere, all over the place, and of course, there's some concerns about it, but there are a lot of advantages to it as well. How do leaders need to embrace as it's changing? What should they embrace or what should they pay attention to? It's happening? Ai is real.
Speaker 3:It's here. I'll just preface all this by saying by no means am I an AI expert, but I do work with a lot of people that are in that area, so I pick things up from them. But I think the first thing is pretty basic and that's just we can't, as leaders, ignore it and hope it goes away, because it's not. It is here to stay, no matter what. And there are pretty simple use cases for leaders where you don't need to be quote unquote technical from things as simple as developing an agenda for weekly team meeting, right, that may take you 10-15 minutes normally.
Speaker 3:Well, you can just plug that into ChatGPT and save yourself that 10 or 15 minutes, all the way up to creating PowerPoint presentations, to speeches, to I mean so many different things. So I say all this and I don't use AI very often. I do, you know, maybe a couple of times a week. It's something that is on my sort of list of. I know I need to do more of this, but yeah, as a leader, we have to embrace it. It's here, it's not going anywhere, and let's just hope that all these dystopian use cases don't actually play out, because that's the scary part.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love what you said and I think it's just like anything else because you have a driver's license, it doesn't mean you get to drive any kind of way and be irresponsible. I will tell you AIS here to stay, but be responsible. There are consequences for not being responsible, such as your brand, your reputation, your image and your integrity. So use it responsibly, but leverage it, because it can make a world of difference for your company, your organization, your team and your turnaround on results. So there's good to it all. Just don't misuse.
Speaker 2:It is what I would tell people. Learn it, and most of us stay away from what we don't know, so we never learn it. So we criticize it. Go learn it, figure it out and figure out where you can leverage it at and where you don't want to leverage it at. But there's some value in AI. Let me go to the place of mentoring, or you know, having a mentor or a sponsor or someone in your corner advocating on your behalf how important has that played a role? And what would you tell the audience that's listening that doesn't have a mentor right now? What would you tell them?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's very important. I've had various mentors along the way in my 25 plus years of my career and I think there can be different types of mentorship. You know, it doesn't just have to be a person that gives you advice from time to time. There's various ways to leverage mentors, but I think the biggest thing is to also consider what's in it. What's in it for them, right, because you're asking them for their time and they're busy people too, so what is it that they're going to get out of it? So often, you know, mentors become mentors because they want to give back, they want to help. But in my opinion, it's about the person being mentored. It's their agenda, it's where they want to go. It's not about the mentor driving it, and I think sometimes that's something that doesn't happen. You know the mentee thinks, oh well, the mentor is just going to impart his or her knowledge, and you know I can just listen. No, it's a two-way street. It's a two-way street.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes. So if you're in a position of being the mentee, you should bring an agenda to the table. It is your meeting. You're just leveraging that individual. I don't know what you want off the menu. I kind of want you to bring your appetite to what you need today, and that can change from meeting to meeting. So think of it as when you go to a restaurant, they ask you what do you want off the menu? It's your agenda. They can have 10,000 things. Anytime you meet with your mentor, you should bring something that you want off the menu that day, and I shouldn't have to figure it out as your mentor. So, as we begin to wrap up, what are three things that you would love to leave with the audience that's listening, that's made you effective or successful or you think will help them? What would you summarize it with?
Speaker 3:Yeah, again, to get back to connection connection, it's just to me probably the most important thing in life in general, whether it's, you know, work or personal. The connections that we make with people is what gets us through the difficult times. It's also what helps us really live our best lives right. We can't do this all on our own. And the more you can connect with people, especially people that look different or dress different or talk different or from different places, they're going to have even more to offer to you because they have a different perspective, a different background. Second, again, emotional intelligence. Again, I think it's just so easy to let our emotions get the best of us, for us to feel or to react negatively to a personal attack or, you know, a stressful situation. But the more we can stay calm and recognize our emotions, what's there, why it's happening, and then not react but respond, the more effective we're going to be. And then three, I would just say expect the unexpected. You know stuff is going to happen in your life, in your career, and just embrace it.
Speaker 3:I truly believe and my editor actually pointed this out to me this was a big aha for me, he said after reading some of my manuscript, he said you know, you're a really spiritual person. And I said to him no, not. What are you talking about? And then I started to think about it more and I'm like you're right, because I truly believe that we are all put on this planet for a reason and it's up to us to figure out what that reason is. And it may take some time, it may not happen right away. I think there's a lot of people that get frustrated, like I don't know what I'm passionate about. That's still something you can figure out and there's nothing wrong with you because you don't know that right now. But your friend does right. Life kind of twists and turns and just you know, stick with it, because we're all put on this planet for a reason. Figure out what it is, yes yes, thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2:You're spot on. I'm glad that your editor reached in and said hey, here's what I'm noticing like reading all this stuff, and you do go outside. You don't see the forest because of the one tree just in front of you. So thank you for sharing it, and I was hoping you'd pull back up to the resiliency you know when you shared your story of how resiliency is being able to bounce back from adversity, and you've done it time and time again. I mean, I can only imagine how many surgeries and how much you went through and the challenges of being able to stay, because it can be easy to give up when it gets tough, and so being resilient is huge. Can you tell us the book again and then we'll go to that side of people reach you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the book again is called Seizing. Today. The subtitle is Discovering Purpose and Authenticity in a Life-Changing Diagnosis. Again, it's on Amazon, barnes, noble, ingramspark all the online channels you can imagine, and then you can reach me. Jontutorcom is my website, so J-O-N-T-U-T-E-U-Rcom. I'm on LinkedIn, my handle's Jonathan-Tutor, and Facebook is the other place where I spend a decent amount of time and it's also Jonathan Tutor. I've been told I need to be on Twitter or X and Instagram, but I haven't quite made those leaps yet.
Speaker 2:I can't say anything about that one. I'm not there yet either, so but Facebook and LinkedIn, I'm all over and I'm hoping I get some people in a different generation that loves the other platforms and they can help me get there. I don't want me to get there. We're probably going to be a little bit of time between me getting on Instagram and Twitter and all those other great things, and I think that's successful. I think they're really good. Else that loves doing it, so they can do it for me as well.
Speaker 2:So you're not on your own on that one, jonathan, thank you. Thank you, that's correct. Thank you, first of all, for coming on the show. It's always a pleasure to have a guest out of Transparent and sharing, and the way you opened up the story about your challenges allowed us to have a deeper conversation about leadership and resiliency, and you know how do you judge and stereotype people and all the other things that surround us as a world. So thank you for what you've done over there and for our guests.
Speaker 2:Thank you for joining us. We enjoy having you. Hopefully we drop something that will make a difference for you as you go on your journey of leadership or encounter your own challenges throughout life. We'll take care of the people that are counting on you the most you know. So, to everyone that's listening and following Jonathan, thank you for joining us. Please tell a friend show Fit Sherry. We'd be happy for that, and if you need services from either one of us, you can find us both on LinkedIn and we'll answer any questions. We're small business owners and we're only successful because the community supports us to be successful. So thank y'all for following our podcast, and the only reason we're still here is because you support our show. Thank you, and until next time. Y'all have a wonderful day.
Speaker 1:Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron unpacks sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are, for the people you serve, because people always matter.
