Unpacked with Ron Harvey
People Always Matter. Join Ron as he unpacks leadership with his guests.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey
The Generous Leader: Balancing Work, Family, and Authentic Leadership with Joe Davis
Ron Harvey explores leadership principles with Joe Davis, a 37-year BCG veteran who shares insights on authentic leadership and balancing career with family life. Together they unpack how leaders can build stronger teams by showing genuine care while maintaining accountability.
• Leaders work for their people, not the other way around
• Never save feedback for performance reviews – deliver it in the moment
• Showing you care gives you permission to be direct and challenging
• The most effective leaders are comfortable saying "I don't know"
• Create family traditions and prioritize important events to balance work/life
• Ask questions and listen genuinely to navigate generational differences
• Vulnerability is strength – asking questions shows you value others' perspectives
• Executive presence comes from authentic confidence, not pretending to know everything
• During chaos, a leader's job is to provide calm confidence and draw out the best ideas
Check out Joe Davis's book "The Generous Leader: Seven Ways to Give of Yourself for Everyone's Gain" available on Amazon and all major booksellers.
Connect with Ron
Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”
Learn more about Global Core Strategies
.
.
.
.
.
Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host leadership consultant, ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, ron Harvey.
Speaker 2:Well, hello everyone. This is Ron Harvey, Once again coming to you with Unpacked, always bringing guests from everywhere. Of course, if you follow us, you know I'm a wife and I own a leadership development firm and we spend a lot of time really helping leaders be better connected to the people that they're responsible for and responsible to. And I'll tell you, I learned that in my military experience that, no matter how you got promoted, you were always working for your people. You were responsible for your people and you have to serve your people. And that was an awakening moment because most of us, once we get there, we think our people work for us. Yeah, the military flipped that upside down and I had to learn a different way of leading.
Speaker 2:So we love what we do, we enjoy it, but we always pause and do our podcast, and this podcast is really with guests from around the world with all kinds of backgrounds, and you already know we don't know what the questions are going to be, but we're going to have a good time. We're going to talk leadership. Our goal is for you to walk away with something that you stay with us for 20 minutes, you have fun with us and you learn something that you can make you a better leader and take better care of your people. So I'm excited to have Joe Davis. He's joining us. We already having fun in fun here, live with you in person. So, joe, let me let you introduce yourself. Whatever you want to say about you will totally fine, but I let all of my guests introduce themselves, because who knows you better than you?
Speaker 3:Thank you, ron, and it's great to be here and actually let me just start. I was excited to hear you say that you know leaders have to remember they're actually serving the people they're working for. But what's the shame is it takes a lot of leaders a long time to learn that. You said it flipped over when you got in the most senior roles in the military. The sooner our leaders figure that out, the better off they're going to be and the better off their teams will be. Well, thanks for having me. You got my name, joe Davis.
Speaker 3:I worked for a company called BCG or the Boston Consulting Group for 37 years, long time.
Speaker 3:In this day and age I always like to say I have four children and number nine grandchild on the way Makes it something very important to me. I had a hell of a career and started my job at Procter and work well, started my work life as a paper boy you know doing that, doing that for six years and then at Procter and Gamble as a sales rep, which was interesting. We can talk more about it, but even that very first job, going in and out, selling you know shampoo and you know deodorant was a huge learning experience and the first leadership role. There was a real big learning experience, especially because I was like 25 and scared to death. You know you were, you were the boss or you were serving people. You were just trying to figure out what you're doing every day. And then, as I said that bcg, I had a pretty good run. Eventually ran mentioned the Grand Darts America for BCG and started some offices along the way and the like. So it's a fun career, great career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you're still smiling and you're still having fun with it. I mean, we're in the green room, we're having fun, we're laughing and really watching leaders that sometimes get to that level. They forget how to just be a human being. You know how do you just have fun and not take yourself so serious. You got a fancy title, but who are you if you didn't have that title? So we'll talk about all of that. Let's go into the question, though you mentioned it earlier, if you don't mind, Joe at Procter Gamble, you know your first leadership role at 25. What were some of the lessons learned? Because you know at 25, you think you got all the answers and you got to do everything yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I'll tell you. I have a very important lesson learned that stuck with me the rest of my life and I used to ride. It's about development and training, helping others grow. I used to ride with my guys. I had three sales reps. Two of them were career sales reps, that's all, and then one was a management track person and these guys were 40 or 38. I thought they were really old, you know cause? I wasn't that age, obviously not that old. You know, I'd ride with them every two weeks and I was scared to death to tell them anything about what they should do differently. I mean, what did I know? Just what I learned in the training manual.
Speaker 3:So that was funny, because then it came to year-end review and I wrote out everything I thought they should do that I had noticed over the year that I didn't say to them ever and I was going through this review, it's a guy named Rich, and Rich I started launching in and blah, blah, blah and he cuts me off after two minutes. He says wait a minute, joe, I think a few swear words in there. I said what the heck? You write me every two weeks and you've never said any of these things, like what the hell is your job? You can imagine at 25, I do not remember how I react, I just remember being mortified. You can imagine at 25, I do not remember how I react, I just remember being mortified Like, oh my gosh, I'm sure how I danced out of that. And then, after Rich left, my manager at the time, my boss, said Joe, never again do you write a review where they haven't heard every word that's going to be written or every idea that's going to be written on that review.
Speaker 3:You know that was a powerful lesson. I was scared. You know. You said some people think they know everything and or they're scared, which is maybe why they think they know everything, because that's a way to cover the fear I was afraid to tell. But the interesting thing was he was looking for me, 25 year old kid, to give him feedback and share what I knew, instead of saying well, you know, just ignore me. So why didn't you tell me all this stuff? It was a really powerful lesson at a very young age. Actually, I kind of believe in when lessons punch you in the face, you tend to remember them a little better. I was embarrassed. Let's just say I was embarrassed.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah. So, joe, when you think about it for someone, that's where you were back in that 25, they were more senior. What drives them? Fear? Because someone's listening. That's in that exact position today and they're themselves with stories that's not true.
Speaker 3:I think there's several things. I think one is, of course, I'm 25 and they're 40, so there's a little bit wrapped up in that, unless you're really, really cocky, but you know. So that's part, but I think the bigger thing was what you said a minute ago. You think you know it all, or you think you're supposed to know it all. Yes, and the truth is you don't and you know you don't. So now you're kind of stuck.
Speaker 3:Wait, can I show I don't know it all, but I'm not supposed to do that. But if I don't show that, how can I tell this guy anything? Honestly, you know, I think you just wrap up in this fear of I'm supposed to have all the answers, but of course I don't. And who am I? Therefore, I'm supposed to be able to train this guy, but what if I'm a little bit wrong? That I'm wrong, you know. I think that's the fear that people get wrapped up in. And it's very interesting because that guy, that 40 year old sales rep, said come on, get over yourself and coach me. Yes, but that's what he was telling me. Absolutely, people want to get better at what they do. Most people, you know, they want to get better at what they do and your job is to help them get there. And to be run around scared is not helping anybody. It's not helping you either, to be honest.
Speaker 2:So once you got it and your boss talked to you, what was your solution? How did you navigate through that and go back and really build back up and say, okay, I get it, I owe this. How did you recover?
Speaker 3:I have to say the recovery was over years, because I probably did better the next time I rode with them. I don't remember anymore, Though there was a lesson there which was it's better to be direct and tell something to someone when you see it in the moment than not. And if you're actually doing it because you care about them and you want them to get better, you can get away with a lot of unintentional kind of direct and harsh words. And the thing that I did learn over time I was then known to be very direct, very clear, give feedback and give it in the moment, but no one ever was, even if it was tough, no one was angry with me, because they knew I only wanted them to be better. I mean, why else would I do it? So I think over time there was indirect feedback. Like you know, that was tough, but thank you because now I know what I need to work on. So you just got reinforcement that actually telling people what they need to hear is pretty powerful. I'll tell you one other little story.
Speaker 1:This is later on maybe 10 years later I think.
Speaker 3:I was a brand new partner at PCG and we're doing a session. The steering committee meeting with the client and all the executive suite was in there and one of the guys was and he said the word like one of my guys. He said the word like every other word and you know, you just don't say like in the C-suite, you just don't do that. You can say it when you're 17 or around the house maybe if you want, but you don't say it in the C-suite, so they don't say it this easy. So we finished, everyone left and we were debriefing. I said to this guy I said, alex, how old are you? So I'm 30. I said you know, I don't think 30-year-olds say like, no more like, and I think I said it more, but I said it right in front of the whole team. I said and he's just like whoa.
Speaker 2:But he told me you know, several years later you so you said something I want to unpack because some leaders think that you know. You said as long as you care, you can share real data. How do you help leaders that are listening that we were taught Keep that. Don't let them know you care. Don't let them see you know emotional like, because I was taught like no, keep this stoic face. Don't let them know that you care about it. Always be very stoic and very direct and hard nose all the time. I don't practice it. I was in uniform for 21 years and one of the comments I got back was they know you care too much. Yeah, would be effective. And some people still think that they can't show they care about their people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I know I was talking to one executive Cisco woman and she in early days. She said she cared about her people and some guy came up to her and said you know you care too much. You got to put some of that away. She said that wasn't me, Wasn't going to do it and, by the way, it didn't work out for him, so I might'll either.
Speaker 2:He wasn't around very long.
Speaker 3:So I think, sure, sure, but a couple of things let me just say I think the world has changed like really changed. I mean, he's a Jack Welch is a great leader. That's fine. They're over. The days of IBM white shirt, blue suit you're just a cog in the wheel. They're over. You know technology has changed that. Now it's 24-7.
Speaker 3:People have to bring their humanity to work, because it works all the time. You have to bring and they want to see a human leader. And then, if you add the social media, all the stress that's proven, that adds. Now you've got people who are on all the time and, you know, may have some level of stress about themselves, the organization, others, and they're looking for you. Know you when you smiled a bit, I'm not saying you have to be nice all the time, but you've got to care about them. And then you got the world of people can quit easily, especially if they're talented. Now maybe it's a little trickier today, but still, if you're really good, you can switch roles. So they're looking for you to bring you humanity. Technology's driven it.
Speaker 3:I think the idea of being stoic, the thing you have to remember, is you're just trying to make them perform better, so everything performs better. I mean, you know I'm not saying be nice, and if it doesn't work and you fail, you get to stay in the job. You know you have to deliver results. I'm not saying you don't deliver results. You might have seen there was a Gallup poll survey out the other day 3 million. They surveyed and they said that one of the bunch of questions, someone cares about me. It's one of the questions people they asked and that's now 39% of the people it used to be 50% felt someone in the workforce cares about them.
Speaker 3:Wow, you know that. Yeah, I know One third. The other two thirds don't. So I will say one thing I think if you want to be an exceptional leader, I think you actually have an edge up if you actually show you care. You still got to deliver. You still have to have insight. You still have to, but if you have an edge up over, you know whoever's leading. The other 65% of those people yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love it. I mean that you said it, joe, because one of the things I always talk about when I'm with my team or out in public or working with our clients is PNR. And I'm not talking public relations, I'm talking about you must have performance. You got to deliver, that's an expectation, but then you got to have healthy relationships with people. People got to know that that is healthy to be with you. And I still need you to be held accountable. And I tell everybody across the world which is what you alluded to is, hey, you've got to deliver, but you can be human and you can take care of people and care about people and still hold them accountable. Matter of fact, they feel bad if they let you down, if you show you care about them.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I actually think you can be even more direct, which is when you care, when you push people to be the best, you will deliver more and they will deliver more. So, actually, it does achieve the goals that you're trying to. You know, if you think all about, anyway, you know, I just think I bet you, if someone, when I started writing my book about it, someone said, well, do you have any data that proves that? I said, well, it's kind of hard to prove, but you know you, there's just countless stories and or anecdotes and or just data around. The best leaders really help their people to perform at their top level. And to do that you have to. You can be tough. I'm not saying don't be tough, but if it's tough because you want to be better, they'll follow you. Now, if you're an ass, if you're a jerk, that may not be so good. There's a level of two different words.
Speaker 2:Man, yes, yes, and I think you're spot on for the people that are listening, like some people think that I gotta be a jerk to people for them to listen or I gotta I gotta like yell and scream to our highest. So I think there are people that that respond to that, but I think more people don't respond to that.
Speaker 3:People want to be respected but held accountable yeah, you know, I tell you, sir joaquin duato, he's ceo of johnson Johnson Johnson, jane Jacobs. Yes, he was telling me how he makes sure that he connects with people and he doesn't yell at people. He's not that kind of guy but in ways that they'll you know. You said, well, some people might respond. I don't. I think most people shut down. I always you said the word some.
Speaker 3:That wasn't it, but he said he would actually, if something, he'd bring a group of people together and practice it and then say, well, what did I say? And he listened to the like. He might say the word transformation. And they'd say, well, you said we have to change. He said, ah, so transformation, they didn't click in, but change. And he'd change his word to change because that's their word.
Speaker 3:And then he'd ask them, well, what if you were telling you know what I said to your, you know your partner or your family tonight at the dinner table, feedback what I said, and he'd listen, take notes and he'd write it and read, adjust it, so they'd connect with what he's saying. You know, and that's the point, you could have a speech, you can have this and that, but if they're not connecting with it, I don't know how you're moving them to do something differently, you know, or inspiring them. So that was pretty. I mean, that was a very practical way to actually make sure your words are coming across, and I'm sure if you're well whatever a jerk wouldn't do that.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we're in the green room and I want to talk about something because you're at a high level. You've been in 37 years, which is unheard of for someone, especially in today's time. So congrats to that. But one thing that we're talking about in the room that I would like you to unpack with us you managed to do your career for that long and your family is still super important. You're spending time with your family. How do you help leaders that will listen to this that think it's one or the other or they're spending all their time at work and they forget that once they retire, get to a certain age? You didn't pay attention to your family and it may not be there because of the way. How do you help people do that? Well, because you shared in the green room and not all those details you share in the green room.
Speaker 3:But how do you manage both? Well, yeah, well, I think everybody can have their own model. I'll tell you some of the things I did. One of the things I do believe is you have to like your work and like what you're doing and feel good about it. If you don't, that'll come home too, and that might come even if you're home all the time. That'll come. I come home worse so, even if you're working your rear off but you love it, that comes home in energy enthusiasm. So I do think that's an important thing.
Speaker 3:My wife used to say, because I'm a consultant, I was gone four days a week, probably 20 years. She would say the day I think you'd rather be gone than here is the day we have a problem. So you know, I never just took off. I personally wanted to be home. Now for me, I did just practically a couple of things. One thing I did do is I didn't miss, when the kids were little, anything that they would think was critical. So you know, I could five, six, seven year olds they have a show at night where they're singing the songs or something I would get on a plane at four o'clock be there for the child, see the thing get up at four in the morning, be on the plane at six and back at the client in the morning. I would not miss those things. Now you had to pick which are the most important ones. You might miss some, but you know, like my children, somehow they said to me well, dad, you were never gone, so let's go four days a week. And there was no FaceTime. Back then they said, oh no, it felt like you're always here. So that's one thing is figure out what really matters, and then you have to sacrifice your time. That's just is if you love your job and your family to be there.
Speaker 3:We also did had traditions. I mean, we always had dinner at the table on Sunday night and we had for a while there. I made everyone dress up that kind of old, but it was fun. You know, we had Saturday night movies. We all'd sit down there and even when they're teenagers oh, what about my friends? No, we'll watch a movie, then you can go out.
Speaker 3:So we built some traditions. The stability, actually, maybe that's the I hadn't thought about this until you just said that but the stability, ron, that comes from kind of traditions and patterns. Then kids feel like, okay, you're here, you know if there's no, if they don't know if you're here or there and you know one moment or the next, that's probably makes it tougher. But that's what I did. I did love my job. I brought that energy home. I made sure I made time for children. We built traditions into the family and I also blurred my kids. I blurred as best I can work in life. You know my kids attended okay, halloween party in the office they came. You know, christmas party for kids in the office they came. I was one of those kinds of people and they loved it. You know there's a long answer with a few of my tips.
Speaker 2:I mean, they're very practical for people that are listening. You know, and I love that you're unpacking it and the answers are solid. So, even though letting you share is important, because someone listening trying to figure it out, they're not bringing them to the office, they're not getting on that plane at four o'clock in the morning. Use the word sacrifice. Use sacrifice for both and I want people to really hear that. On Unpacked, we make it look easy sometimes on our level, but there are a lot of behind the scenes that you don't see. That's why I call it Unpacked. We make it look too easy sometimes and we don't give you the real recipe.
Speaker 2:He's already told me what Joe was doing. He made sure he had traditions in place Dinner at the table, let's watch a movie, then go out with your friends. Unfortunately, because of technology, so many people don't have dinner. If they do, they're on the device. They can't have a conversation. They're texting each other or sending each other emails inside of the home. How do you create those things where you can have a connection? The word I want you to walk away with is sacrifice and connection. That's what he shared. Are you connected and are you making the sacrifices for the things that matter to you?
Speaker 3:That's good advice. The word sacrifice here Because I used to read the newspaper Once my kids were around. I didn't read it. You just have to figure out what things that I used to do. That don't really matter and I'm going to give the time to the kids. Yes, if you care. If you care.
Speaker 2:What was the best advice, Joe, that you were given as you were coming through the ranks and you're in a role now? What was the best advice you were given that you still?
Speaker 3:use today. I think one of the best pieces of advice is someone said to me is Joe, if you can tell something's going to be wrong or go the wrong way or go sideways? And he said you have a good tummy rumble about. That was where? Do not turn away, do not duck from it. Go attack the problem now, or the potential problem, and make it go away before it comes. A problem, you know. And, and the advice was twofold. The nice advice was you have a sense when it's off and take advantage of it. But he also said sometimes you'd like to just avoid it and ignore it and hope it goes away. And they don't go away, you know. So, if your instincts right. So that was pretty good advice. And you know and it took a long time to do it like, oh my gosh, this is a real hassle, it's going to be a pain, I know. All right, better buckle down and go face it, Because if you don't face it, you're going to pay for it somewhere along the way.
Speaker 3:Yeah it gets bigger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when you were going through the levels of leadership and management is one thing, but when you get to this executive a lot of people use this word but it's hard to describe it. Sometimes, you know you hear, hey, they lack executive presence. If you could put that into a container and say what it really means. When they say that to someone because I do executive coaching and get to help develop people and they hear this, that executive presence, which very nebulous sometimes. Quite honestly, what does it really mean?
Speaker 3:I'm going to try to answer it, but I'm also going to challenge it, because I remember there were early days. Well, answer it, but I'm also going to challenge it, cause I remember there were early days, were like you know, I don't know if we can promote this person, cause you know, when they walk down the hall, it's just you know, it's just not like they're there Jeez, they're one of the smartest people. Clients love them. So what is this thing you're talking about? So you got to be careful too, cause it can't be bold, but I do think, if I were to answer that, I think maybe there's just it's a little bit of confidence, and confidence can mean you're authentic. Confidence can mean oh, I don't know that's confident. You know that's not fear, that's not bullshit. I don't know that takes a lot of confidence. Confidence can mean, as Alex Gorski, the previous CEO of J&J, once said you know your job as a leader is not to get to have the best answer in the room. Your job is to get the best answer out of the room, and you know that takes a lot of confidence. So I don't know the answer, but, man, this team does. How do I grow? How do I get it out of them.
Speaker 3:I just think and then I was going to actually, when you say the executive, that is probably a little bit of a calm confidence. You know someone's running around. Yes, it's not executive presence, you know. It just makes everybody nervous, you know. I mean you can be twisted inside, that's okay. I think my stomach twists a lot inside, but there's a little bit about a calm confidence and it doesn't mean arrogance, it doesn't mean I have all the answers. I'm repeating myself a bit, but it's quite important People get that. It's just that I'm confident enough to say I don't know, I'm confident enough to share hey, I had a bad day yesterday. Today's gonna be a tough one. You know, being human, I think that's, and not. But also not being nervous and willy-nilly.
Speaker 2:That's what hurts, I love it. Which leads me to my next question for you, as a leader, when things are total chaos everywhere. What's the function of a leader in those moments when chaos is all around? You know, regardless of what's happening, where we missed a deadline, the client's not happy. You know things are happening. That's just total chaos. What's the job of a leader at that time? What's the best thing they can do for their team?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, I think COVID was a good time for that, right? Yes, yes. And I do think the best thing you can do is let me think about this. You know, let them know you're there for them. Let them know you have confidence that we're going to steer the ship as best we can, even if we don't know exactly where we're going.
Speaker 3:Scott Kirby said the CEO of United when it hit, he said he went on to all of his thousands of employees and said I'm not sure when we're going to fly again, but I can tell you we're going to do our best. And a lot of his executives said you can't say that You're supposed to be the CEO, you're supposed to have the answer. Well then, I'm lying because nobody. So you know. So your job is to instill confidence. Obviously some calmness ties to the executive presence and indicate you're at least going to move forward with, you know, collecting the best insights you can. Even if you're not exactly sure where forward, you know how you're going to get forward. I think that's okay to say that. And then the other thing obviously you want to inspire and get the best out of all your people. If there's chaos, then okay, who's got brilliant ideas to help us get out of the chaos. Go find those people and ask them. Let them bring the idea.
Speaker 2:I go to one of my final questions for you. Then we'll see if people want to reach out to you. They know how to. But when you think about how long you've been in the industry, how long you've been in leadership and you played leadership in all roles You've seen a lot of changes and there's multiple generations in the workforce. What's the best advice you give to someone that changes happen rapidly, faster than we ever imagined? There's five generations in the workforce. What's the best way for us to be effective as leaders based on the current environment we're living in?
Speaker 3:I think the best thing to do is to ask questions and listen to the answer. And by that just because you may think, oh, that answer is not what I thought, so don't shut it down and say, well, that's not my say. Ah, let me add that to my data. I think when there's so much uncertainty and there's a lot of great people around you, the more you ask questions and listen and ask questions and listen. I'll tell you, every single executive I interviewed in the book said that Google did a survey of their 80,000 managers and the highest performing managers were great coaches. They did that by engaging with the people. They did that by asking questions and listening. Ask and listen, ask them.
Speaker 3:I think that's important anytime, but especially when you've got multiple, you know, you and I don't know where a 23-year-old's coming from we have no clue. When you've got multiple, you know you and I don't know where a 23 year old's coming from, we have no clue. So how do we find out? We ask them. You know, what do you know? What are you learning? What do you think's going on out there? How do we change what we're doing? How do you think your general, you know, your colleagues are thinking about this, which means humbleness, authenticity and maybe a little bit of vulnerability, because you're admitting you don't know something by asking yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you're about to open up another. Can John Vulnerability that, yeah, that.
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, as we come to a close, you have a book out or you've written it and you've done a lot of interviews. How do we get the book? What's the title? Where do we find it at? I would love for people to support and everybody I bring on, I say they share what you have out there, so we can support it as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you. Well, it's called the Generous Leader Seven Ways to Give of Yourself for Everyone's Gain. It's about what we just talked about, this whole call. Of course you can buy it on the internet Amazon and all those places I should say Barnes and Noble and whatever. To be fair, it's there.
Speaker 3:And if people want to reach out'm always on linkedin, but I'm pretty active linkedin user. You can send me a message on linkedin. I will respond, send you my email because I don't want to engage through link and I'll connect. And I'll do it too. Believe it or not, I'll connect. You know now, if you want to sell me something, I may or may not respond, but if you want to, hey, well, listen, yeah, I love you know I wrote this book and I said to a friend of mine I said well, gosh, you know I'm never going to sell a million copies like Brenny Brown or Adam Grant, whatever. And he said you know, joe, if you move seven people to behave a little bit differently in their leadership, it'll be worth the effort. Yes, well, that's really what I want to do is just help move some people, just like what you do in your career.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I love it. I mean you're humanizing the conversation. You know no matter, you know where you get at. You know you showed up even in the green room, like ego doesn't show up, you just have fun. Here's who I am. How are we going to do this? And I think sometimes we get caught up in our titles and our positions and our roles. Really cares, Like, do you know your job and can you help me and will you help me? You know, at the end of the day, people don't get caught up in titles or positions, except for the person that's wearing it.
Speaker 3:Well, and also while you're wearing it, sometimes people treat you like something, and then the day you don't wear it, you're not that thing anymore. So you might as well understand it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know, you know from the military background. They say, hey, if you got to wear your rank everywhere that you go and they don't respect you when you're not in it, then it's not true. They respect. They just respect that rank title. They respect, yes, and so I tell you that if you can get past it. Not that we don't need hierarchy, it's just that be a human People know that at the end of the day that you got a title and position, but be a human as we hear about. Is there any last minute advice that you would share with the people that are in leadership roles, that's, trying to navigate and be better at leadership? Is there anything that you'll pull from your book about generous leader that you'll share with us?
Speaker 3:I can repeat myself a bit, but I do think this idea of you don't know everything, no matter who you are and what you think, so the more you can ask and listen, and then we won't go deep into vulnerability. But I will say you know, even asking shows some vulnerability. Somebody says, oh, do I have to cry in front? No, just say I don't know. And that frees everybody. Oh, you don't know, the boss doesn't know, we don't know. All of a sudden everyone gets past these fears of saying I don't know.
Speaker 3:So I do think that being I will use the word vulnerable enough to understand you don't have the answers and ask a lot of questions and listen. It's probably. I ask a lot of questions and listen. There's probably, I mean there's many things. But those are really fundamental to getting the best out of your people and you know they feel respected and they're inspired. Oh, you care about me? Oh, wow. And you can ask also about their personal life once in a while. Not, you know a conversation, but how was your weekend? You know, how's your child's soccer game last weekend? I don't know. Pick something, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you do it naturally. And I will say you know, as I listened to Joe, we were talking in the green room and he's been on this show as we were talking. The one thing that he does is just authentic. Don't fake it. Don't do it because you actually care and you're being a human about it and you're having a traditional conversation. Learn how to do it effectively, but ask those questions. People care that you care about them. Yeah, shows respect. It shows respect. Yes, awesome, awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you all for following us and staying with Joe and I for several minutes just to share phenomenal information. Please support the book. I'm always telling people, the people you meet and the books you read will show up somewhere in your life. So I always value the people. I'm a relationship guy. Thank you all, and until next time, joe and I will sign off and we hope you enjoyed the podcast. Tell your friends, tell your relatives and share it with your colleagues. We'd love to have you support our podcast of Unpacked. We don't know what we're going to talk about. The only thing we promise is we'll always talk about leadership. Thank you all for joining us. Joe and I will sign off and we hope to see you on another podcast.
Speaker 1:Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron unpacks sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are, for the people you serve, because people always matter.
