William Davis on Leadership: Beyond Managing

We explore what separates real leadership from title-driven management, why connection is the engine of trust, and how fair recognition fuels performance. William Davis shares lessons from four decades in corporate roles, mentorship stories, and a candid blueprint for humane, high-performing teams.

• defining leader vs manager vs boss
• building trust through consistent connection
• rejecting forced rankings and unfair rewards
• advice for younger, ambitious leaders
• mentorship as an antidote to insecurity
• weekly feedback and zero-surprise reviews
• personalizing relationships to each teammate
• repairing trust by showing up in the work
• modeling vulnerability and safety
• shifting from expert to empowering leader
• boundaries, time off, and work-life balance
• three actionable practices leaders can start today
• William’s books and how to contact him

Feel free to share it. If you know someone that you think would be a great guest that's going to add value to our audience, that's what the show is really about. You can always find us on our company's webpage, Global Core Strategies and Consulting. You'll find everything about me on there. It'll send you to my LinkedIn, which are the two primary sources to reach us.

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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey

“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”

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Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet William Davis And Mission
• 3:18 The Book And Defining Leadership
• 6:40 Connection, Trust, And Tough Talks
• 11:59 Titles, Rankings, And Fair Pay
• 18:15 Advice To Younger Leaders And Mentorship
• 23:40 Insecurity, Talent, And Team Mindset
• 27:58 Feedback Rhythms And Personalization
• 32:20 Rebuilding Trust Through Presence
• 36:30 Vulnerability And Psychological Safety
• 41:10 From Expert To Leader: Letting Go

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host, Leadership Consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now, to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.

SPEAKER_01: 0:20

Good afternoon, everyone. This is Ron Harvey, Vice President, Chief Operating Officer for Global Core Strategies and Consulting. We own a leadership firm, you know, specializing in helping leaders become better connected to their workforce and the people that they were really responsible for at the end of the day. We love it. We've been in business about 12 years, based out of Columbia, South Carolina. But I always, as you know, if you're following me, we do a podcast called Unpack with Ron Harvey. Guests from around the world, there are no questions that are preset. We're not sure what we're going to talk about, with the exception of leadership. And I'm I'm happy that our guests are brave enough. Most people are like, wait, send me the questions first. But all of our guests come on and we want to share something that's going to be of value. We want to share something that you can use that'll be helpful. And we'll talk that we do own businesses. We do like to do work with different organizations and companies. So our guests are pretty transparent and open. So without any further ado, I want to be able to invite William to you know introduce himself, what he wants you to know about him before we dive into the question. But I always give our guests a chance to say what they want to say about themselves, and I don't mess it up. So, William, let me hand it to you. Whatever you want to share, you know, the mic is yours.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25

Thank you, Ron. I really appreciate it. I I've really looked forward to being on this uh podcast with you for several weeks, and and it's been great uh had talking with you before we started today. Uh my name's William Davis. Uh I live just outside of Dallas, Texas, have been here about oh 20 years, 20 so 25 years, I guess. Um, and uh married, two kids, both uh in their 30s. So uh I tell them now all the times that they were telling me I was old, they're getting there. So uh yeah. But uh I I just retired um from corporate America after almost 40 years uh and started a consulting firm of my own uh last month that uh I focus on doing keynotes. And I actually just wrote a book and finishing my second one that maybe we'll get to talk about a little bit later. Um, but again, speaking specifically on leadership and and some of the things that over my 38-year career uh I felt like uh are missing in regards to training our new generation of folks that are coming up. So that's what I'm I'm hoping to do. Uh I I keep telling everybody it's it's this is my opportunity to give back. Uh, I I've gotten so much from my career and the people associated with it, and and I feel like that I want to do something to help prepare the next group.

SPEAKER_01: 2:50

Yes, yes. Thanks, William. I mean, and you're right in alignment. I mean, I'm glad and congratulations on retirement and and and doing something different and giving back in in the books. So before we dive into any of the questions, I know you already have a book out and I always want to share, you know, with people, you know. So what's the name of the book? And if you have it anywhere floating next to you or near you, love to promote that. And then if you're allowed to share what the new title may be for something else you're writing, you can share that as well. So here's the opportunity to promote what you have already and what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02: 3:17

I appreciate that, Ron. This is it. It's called uh How to Lead. Well, my my background is kind of messing up. It's called How to Lead Without Just Managing. It's available on Amazon, and this particular book deals specifically with the difference between leadership, yes, being a manager, and being a boss, because those three terms are used interchangeably all the time, and they couldn't be a more dramatic difference between the three. And I and I think you know, one of the frustrations I always had uh latter part of my career is you would look at leadership training corporations would have. Well, it's not any more than just managerical training. How do I do hang on? How do I check off the marks? You know, how do I do this, how do I do that? And it's not ever dealing with the true nature of leadership. Leadership is about your people. Leadership is not about the check marks on the list that the managers have to do, it's all about bringing my people to a level of success where they can continue to feel good about what they're doing, how they're doing, and and you know, move on with their career and and do what you've done.

SPEAKER_01: 4:30

Yeah, I'm glad you're sharing that, William. So you think about the book, you know, um, from the different levels, you're right. The the language can become interchangeable and it's not the same. Yeah. What have been some of the what's the one lesson that you've learned throughout your career, and I'm sure you've learned a lot of them? What stands out the most to you, something that you learned that you still use today in leadership?

SPEAKER_02: 4:50

It's the building the connection with my people, right? And and and it they don't even have to be reporting to me, right? It's I just build the connection because if you are going to have a successful relationship with anybody, you've got to build a connection that means something to them as much as it means to you. And in doing so, you you're helping build trust, uh loyalty, a genuineness that they always feel like that you're looking out for them and trying to do for them what's in their best interest, right? And and what I've always found is even when you build that kind of relationship and and you have to have the tough conversations, the tough conversations are easier because they feel like that you are genuinely looking out for them and not trying to sabotage them.

SPEAKER_01: 5:48

Yes, yes. I I love it. You know, I I I like to on there, William, tell people it's like you can have the greatest cell phone possible, whether it's iPhone or Android. If you don't have a connection, a Wi-Fi, that phone is pretty useless. Right. It becomes a ticket really, really quick. And I think that for people that are listening, sometimes we have you noticed that sometimes leaders let their titles get in the way um because they rose to the ranks, got this phenomenal title, got this office, and all of a sudden they don't have a connection. How do leaders avoid letting their titles get in the way?

SPEAKER_02: 6:18

Well, I think it's it's got to start from the very beginning of their career. I I don't know that somebody can uh uh all of a sudden, you know, I get the corner office, I get the senior vice president title, director, whatever. I I don't know that they can change spots, right? Uh and and and suddenly become something in regards to connecting with people that they've not done genuinely throughout their career. I I always find it funny, Ron, that that um people who get in those positions fail to understand it's the people under them that allow them to succeed, right? If if if I'm gonna get a, you know, I work for a large company and I'm gonna get a you know X number of millions of dollars in bonuses, uh, did I do that on my own, or is it because of the people underneath me, right? It's because of the people underneath me. And I need to make sure that that they're taken care of. And I and I think, you know, as I have transitioned out and and I have been able to speak out a little bit more freely than what I was, you know, prior. Um the the thing that has always annoyed me so much is you know, we have brought into existence this bell curve ranking or forced ranking or stack stacked ranking. And all to me it is is an excuse of how do I penalize people of a certain amount of money so I can pay the bigwigs more. Yeah, wow. Uh, and and I would encourage everybody to go back and look at annual reports of companies that they've worked for where they've gotten ripped off of the of their uh bonuses, or you know, let's let's even talk about uh raises, you know, you know, corporate leaders get raises of five, ten, fifteen percent while the the rank and file folks get one, two, three percent. Well, how are they supposed to survive on that when inflation's six percent, seven percent, eight percent, right? And and you, you know, to your question, and I know I'm going a long way around this, to your question is they have to understand that the people that work for them are human beings that have issues they have to deal with on a daily basis. They have bills, they have kids, they have families, they have homes, all these challenges that they have to deal with, and they are counting you on you as a leader to do your part to make sure that they're taken care of. And when you fail in that regard, you don't need to be in the position you're in because you you're too selfish, is my personal opinion. You're too selfish to be in that role.

SPEAKER_01: 9:07

Yeah, which is an interesting point, though, when you when you think about it, it is our society flawed in that way, then, because most organizations, the higher you go, the more the bonuses, the more the pay is, the more the perks are, the more the big offers is. Um, and and and we almost have this entitlement mentality when we're the CEO, there's a certain level of revenue that comes with that. How do you begin to balance this out where it's not where corporate America or the big wigs are getting the bulk of the revenue that is flowing through the entire organization?

SPEAKER_02: 9:38

That's a great question, Ron. I I think you know one of the things that uh you have to start with is helping them understand that uh the the people that work for them, the people they have relationships with are human beings, right? And the the golden rule is is always the best, in my opinion, to follow. Do unto others as you'd have them do under you. And and and if you would reverse the the positions between you and the people that work for you, you wouldn't accept or you wouldn't be happy, or you wouldn't, you know, feel right about getting a one and two percent raise or only getting 75% of your bonus when you know. So to me, it's it's a a uh you have to look inwardly at yourself and and really analyze who am I? Am I really this selfish? Am I really this self-centered? Or am I truly a leader who is going to do everything possible, even to the point of uh sacrificing some things for the people who are loyal and and allow me to be in the position I'm in?

SPEAKER_01: 10:53

Wow. I mean, you give it a lot to unpack. So so, William, as you look at, I mean, I love that you're in the leadership background and you've been in corporate America, uh, and you've transitioned, you know, you're doing a company now, which means you want to give back, as we were talking in the green room, you want to give back. How important it was for you as you were starting the young version of you, and you look at where you are now, what piece of advice would you give your younger version?

SPEAKER_02: 11:17

Well, uh that's great. That's a great question because I was thinking about that the other day. My younger version was the very arrogant, self-centered, it's all about me, right? Yeah, and and I I wanted to be successful, and oftentimes my success uh came at the expense of someone else, right? Or at least in my mindset, I was willing to go that far, right? And so the the thing that I have tried to help young leaders understand now is the reputation that you make now and the the pattern that you follow in leadership now is what's gonna follow you through the remainder of your career. Because short of some catastrophic situation occurring in your life, who you are as a young leader is gonna be who you are later on, because generally you're getting you're becoming more and more successful as your career goes on. And so if I don't need to change what's gotten me to the point where I'm at, why would I? Right? And so if I'm not treating people with respect, if if I'm not building trust, I'm not building loyalty, and uh again, not treating them as a human being, then there's not going to be, as I get more successful, not gonna be any more reason, any reason for me to change that.

SPEAKER_01: 12:43

Yeah, I mean that yeah, because you you've been rewarded, and so people will will repeat what they're rewarded for. So I totally I've always told if you want it to get repeated, rewarded, and you'll see it again. How how important was it for you, you know, throughout your journey or your career? You know, first did you have mentors in place and and why if you had them?

SPEAKER_02: 13:03

I I did have a mentor uh very early on in my career, right after I got out of college when I went to work for the bank. Uh, I went to work for the home company uh out of St. Louis. I was living in Oklahoma City at the time. And he uh great guy. I mean, he and I are still friends 30 35 years later, uh, and and talk a couple of times a week. Um he very you know early on showed me that don't take yourself too seriously, you know, don't don't take yourself too seriously. And and again, it was all that we're we win together, we lose together. Right? I I'm only as successful as as the weakest link, if you will, or the least successful of my people. And to me, um one of the things that he taught me early on was I am not competing with my folks, right? I am I am complimenting my folks uh from the perspective of everything I can do to help make them successful. And if they're successful, hey, that's exactly what I'm looking for. And I think part of the challenge that I've seen uh through the years, and this goes back to what you and I were talking a little bit about earlier, is too many quote unquote leaders look at their people as competition, and they're not competition. You know, if I have somebody and they bypass me in their career, great, man, that's awesome. That's what I want for them, right? Because at the end of the day, I have other things in my life. I have my wife, I have my kids, you know, retirement opens up a whole new uh opportunity uh at life. But if I am constantly looking at my people as competition, I'm always going to do something, you know, whether it's uh consciously or unconsciously, to sabotage not only them, but you know, the team and the company as a whole.

SPEAKER_01: 15:11

Wow, wow. Phenomenal. I love I love the story that you're sharing. In your time of leadership, you know, corporate America, and you're raising a family, you got how do you help people that are that are insecure in their role? You know, you hire someone and we look at resumes and what is really phenomenal, outstanding, young, up-and-coming person. But then when they come, we put a lid on them because we're insecure. How do you help leaders that that get past this insecurity of having someone on your team that's younger, better, faster, smarter to take the organization to another level, but don't get in the way of that? How do you help me if I'm insecure in my role because I have someone behind me that's better than me?

SPEAKER_02: 15:47

I I I always encourage them to look at, hey, what can you learn from them? Right? What can you learn from them and what can you implement, right? And if they're that great, hey, think about the fantastic team you two can make together, right? Think of all the things that you can do together. Uh and again, it goes back to this, it's not me versus them, it's us, right? It's we, we are accomplishing this. And and so that to me is has always been where I've started out is you gotta look behalf, you gotta look past yourself. You've got to look at the bigger picture of we are a team, we are accomplishing together, and I want them to succeed. When they succeed, I succeed. And and if you can't have that kind of mentality, I question whether you really need to be a leader or not.

SPEAKER_01: 16:40

Yes, yes, 11. How do you help us on when you look at it, William, and you think about the value of making sure that you do performance appraisals and feedback? You know, some leaders don't do performance appraisals in a timely, accurate manner, or if they do them at all, or they hand it to their staff and tell them to do their own. How valuable is it for us as leaders to ensure we're doing performance appraisals with our with our team on a on a consistent basis and not just at the end of the year, but quarterly check-ins to get people to the end of the year, there's no surprise.

SPEAKER_02: 17:10

You know, yeah, how important is that? I it's incredibly important. And and again, I I would say that that is one of the one of the things that led me to deciding to retire because that whole process is just ridiculous at this point. Um, you know, if I am if I'm truly leading my folks and and trying to do the best I can for them, I need to be talking to them at least once or twice a week, if not, you know, more, right? And and it's and it's not always a um a negative conversation or a hey, it's uh you know, you need to do better here. It's a hey man, that was great. I I love the way you did that. I love the way you brought everybody together, you know, keep doing that, right? My job as a leader is to be a leader, right? It's to take my people to the next level, and that's my job. And and if I'm not communicating with them on a regular basis, then I'm not doing what I should be doing. Now, conversely, I need to be able to take the feedback also, right? If if I do something that, hey, somebody from my team comes to me and says, you know what, that really didn't go over well, or that didn't really work well, I need to be willing to listen to it and I need to be willing to adjust to it. Uh, because just because something I've done has worked in the past doesn't mean it's going to work with a group of people that I've got now. Because everybody's different. And that's one of the things I write about in my new book uh about building genuine relationships, is the building of a relationship with your team has to be on an individual basis. I have to find what is uh the right approach to building a relationship with person A, person B, person C, it's not gonna be a one size fits all. And in doing that, uh then, you know, these conversations that I have with them on a weekly basis or or whatever, um, it is gonna be able to go back and forth because we've got a comfort level with each other that we can be honest. And we can, if I tell you, Ron, hey, you know what, you and I have a great relationship. I want you to be totally honest with me. And the first time you say something negative toward me, I I go off in a huff or or I start treating you differently. I've I have totally damaged that relationship because that level of trust is no longer there that they thought that we had together. And so I've got to be able to listen and I've got to be able to change if needed. But then I've also, if I feel it's still the best approach, I still got to be able to expand on or expound on why I think it's the right approach. And hey, let's work together and see if we can refine it and make it best.

SPEAKER_01: 20:04

Yes. I mean, phenomenal information where you so as you look at the opportunity, you mentioned trust. How do you help leaders rebuild trust after they've done something to erode it? You know, they've made a mistake or they said a wrong comment, or or they got or they huff and puff and they got feedback and they didn't respond to it well, which which really begins to erode trust. How do you help a leader recover from it when they've made a mistake?

SPEAKER_02: 20:27

The first thing I tell them is you've got to get back in there with your team and you've got to work with them. They've got to see you doing the work with them that they have been doing. And the reason, excuse me, the reason that I say that is when you're in there working with them, you're hearing them, right? You're hearing what they're saying, you're hearing how they're reasoning, then you can provide input. Sorry, Ron. You can provide input and they start they start getting to interacting with you in such a way where you guys are now moving toward a common goal, a common purpose. Um, I've seen a lot of guys who who run the trust with their team and they try to rebuild it from afar, and and that's not gonna happen. If you're not there with your team where you're able to interact, should interact with them, they're able to see your genuineness and you're able to see their genuineness, you're not gonna be able to rebuild that trust. So you got to jump right back in with the team. It's gonna be uncomfortable at first, it's gonna be tense at first, but you as leader have to be able to set the tone for I want to make amends, I want to make this relationship right again.

SPEAKER_01: 21:46

Yeah, I hear in there, um, and you can correct me on here, William. There's a level of of being willing to be vulnerable in that space. Can you speak to about the vulnerability that leaders have to show? When I grew up, it was don't let them see you sweat, don't let them see your emotions, don't let them know your mistakes. You know, you're always right and you got all the answers. That's that's not reality. That command and control and always having the answers is not reality anymore. Can you speak to vulnerability for leaders that are listening?

SPEAKER_02: 22:11

Well, you have to be vulnerable, you have to show it because if not, people are gonna perceive you as fake because they know, like you said, that's not reality. And uh, you know, my wife consistently tells me things I've done wrong. So I I'm not I'm not uh I'm not uh uh uh I'm always used to hearing that, right? So I I can share that with folks. You know, I if you can't make fun of yourself, if you can't lay out your weaknesses or your failures or your frailties, then I'm not sure you're ever able to grow past them, right? When I, you know, uh one of the teams that that I had for about 10 years, we traveled about 75% of the time for about 10 years. We were there Sunday night through you know Friday. And you know, we spent eight, twelve, fourteen hours a day together. And I had a rule that we got together at every night at dinner together. We ate dinner together, right? But we didn't talk business. We always talked everything other than business, and it's amazing what comes out of those conversations because you share things, you know. Man, I can't believe I racked I backed into a tree and you know, pulling out of my driveway, right? Well, you know, that may be silly and that may not be very necessarily along with business failure, but they see that you have had challenges, right? Just like they did. Oh gosh, I backed out and knocked over my neighbor's mailbox, right? You know, and and when you when you start showing the real side to you or to yourself, to others, then you're able to work through challenges that you have, right? And I and I give you a perfect example. Um, you know, we were sitting at dinner one night and and I I was talking about uh you know something that I had done just completely stupid, you know, and and I'm not gonna mention it online, but uh I had just done it completely stupid. And somebody looked at me and says, Oh, no, that's that's nothing. I did something and they named off something worse, right? And then I had somebody else say, Oh, that's nothing. I, you know, it's so we kind of started making a game out of, okay, what silly thing did you do over the weekend, or what's your worst, you know. So it became a not a competition, but it became a safe space. Yes, became a safe space that we were able to just talk, have fun, share, learn, right? There were there were a number of times when somebody would say this happened, and it became a serious conversation between the group, and and we helped people work out the challenges they had. So if you're not willing to show vulnerability and the fact that you fail, just like everybody else, then you're never gonna build any kind of uh valid relationship with your team.

SPEAKER_01: 25:19

Yes, yes. So when you think when you think of William, you know, from from going from you know, you mentioned the different roles, managers, leaders, you know. How do you help like when you're a technical expert and you're the one that got all the answers and you're really, really good, and then all of a sudden you're in a leadership role? How do you help people make that transition? Because it's very difficult. I'm a veteran, that's one of the hardest things that we've always said. Like when you get promoted, how do you get out of this this do-it-yourself, you know, um, as versus delegating and trusting and empowering people? That's difficult. It's easy to say, but difficult to do. What are some strategies to help people get out of their own way and step into their leadership role?

SPEAKER_02: 25:58

Well, I think the first thing that you have to to make clear to the the team is that I am always here for help, right? Yeah I I'm not gonna sit here and judge you. You know, I I might I might do it X way, right? But if you do it Y way, I'm not gonna sit there and say, oh, that's wrong, right? Uh so I you've got to make them comfortable that as you step out of that, you know, day-to-day operational type role, that they have the um the freedom to come to you to discuss what's going on, and they're not gonna be judged, you know, or or have negative uh, you know, walk away from the conversation negative with a negative feeling, right? I've also suggested to them to leaders that you know just because you step away from the day-to-day doesn't necessarily mean that you have to step away from listening in to what they're they're talking about, right? And and still providing guidance, right? I may not tell them A to B to see how to do it, but I might offer them guidance. Hey, have you ever thought about this? Okay, and again, allowing them to understand that you are still attached, you still have a uh you know, a stake in what's going on, and again, you you want to help them succeed. So it is a very delicate balancing act, but I think you know, if you go into it from a perspective of making sure my team understands they've got the freedom to come to me without judgment, that you know, we'll you know, we'll talk through whatever, uh, and I'm not gonna hang you know hammer them on the head because I disagree with maybe the direction they're going and and the fact that I'm gonna drop in every once in a while and and just listen to the conversation and offer them guidance. I I think that goes a long way to starting to make that transition easier for both sides.

SPEAKER_01: 27:56

Awesome. Thank you. How do you help? I mean, what did you do? I want to say how did you help? How did you manage self-care when you were in a in an executive role? And and and and of course you can burn the candles at both ends, and it's not healthy. How did you what did you do to make sure you manage self-care?

SPEAKER_02: 28:12

Well, early years I didn't. I I did a very poor job of it, right? I I, you know, in order to be seen, in order to be uh uh uh at the front of things, I would travel, you know, middle of the afternoon on Sunday and not come home till late Friday night, sometimes you know, early into the hours of Saturday morning. And and I lost a lot of um great parenting time and a lot of great spousal time because of it. Um and you know, one of the things that that uh woke me up was in '98, the the bank I had been working for, uh, you know, and we had worked on mergers and acquisitions for a number of years, and we were bought. And all that work that we had done over the previous five, six, seven years was now all of a sudden worthless. Because who bought us was now going to come in and do it differently. And I told myself at that time that was the stupidest thing you've ever done because you have now lost something that you'll never be able to get back for something that was so easily thrown away. Wow. And so from that point on, and this was 98 when we moved down here to the Dallas area. Uh, from that point on, I refused to do that. I I caught, you know, I caught the flights everybody else did. You know, if they flew out Monday morning, I flew out Monday morning. If I they flew back Friday morning, I flew back Friday morning. I was not going to shortchange the organization, right? I was gonna do what I was not what I needed to do, but I was. No longer going to shortchange my family, and I was no longer going to shortchange myself. And that is a conscious effort, uh, and a conscious decision that you have to make that no role is worth your health. And I'll give you a perfect example. Uh, the that transition, that that purchase that uh was made of our organization, the gentleman who was going to be our new boss, my group's new boss, came from this new organization or the purchasing organization, and he was flying in and out of St. Louis every week uh doing different things. And he was at the time, he was probably late 40s, maybe 50 at the time, and he came in one one Friday night late and uh told his wife, you know, I don't feel very well, and sat down in his chair in the middle of his living room, and they found him the next morning dead.

unknown: 31:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 31:01

And you think, oh well, it just had to be his lifestyle. No, the guy was a marathon runner, the guy was as fit as anybody I've ever seen in my life, and that woke me up to the fact of you know, gosh, there's got to be more to this than than you know, just this traveling, and and so um you have you have to make life more about than the job and the career, because at some point it goes away.

SPEAKER_01: 31:33

Yes, yes. I'll tell you when you you know, um, and I actually use that all the time because you know we didn't always get it right, um, and we're trying to put you know, plant seeds and help understand the importance of it. I think the statement that stuck with me, you know, um that I use when I travel and people ask me that same question. I say, don't be a public success and a private failure.

SPEAKER_02: 31:53

There you go. That's great. Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 31:55

Because publicly everybody loves you, but your family, if you go ask them, they're like, Yeah, but you're never home. You're never you're missing a lot of things that you don't necessarily have to miss.

SPEAKER_02: 32:02

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 32:03

There's always gonna be the next opportunity or the next thing that you can make, or the next you know, no big deal you can make, you know. But if your family is missing you, you want to pay attention to that. And I tell leaders all the time, don't publicly be great, but probably you'll fell in miserably. That's your health, that's your finances, that's your family, that's your faith. If you're a faith person, like all those other things that make up your entire life, pay attention to them. Um, because you can't get those things back. You know, it it's it really hurts you long term.

SPEAKER_02: 32:30

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And and and again, that's permanent, right? I mean, that though that damage is permanent. It's it's uh like you said, it's it's just uh you can't get it back. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 32:43

Are there any things as we look at time force here? What would you leave the audience with? Are there three things you say, hey Ron, you know, in leadership, you know, you run a consulting firm, you're you've had you had a lot of years of experience. Are there three things you say from your wisdom of all those years and running a company now? What what would you leave with leaders that are listening that say, hey, give me something that that I can implement right now today? What would you tell them?

SPEAKER_02: 33:03

Well, the first thing I would do is tell them to change the way they look at their people.

unknown: 33:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 33:09

If you don't see your people as human beings with real issues, real challenges, real desires, real uh passions, then you're not ever going to be the type of leader that you could be, right? And so to me, that that's the most incredible thing uh that that you do. And that's to the the point of my second book is it's all about building that relationships. Uh and again, it has to be done on an individual basis. There's not going to be a right way to do it with everybody, you know. Um, and I'll give you just if you don't mind, a couple of quick examples. Uh, you know, I had a a young man that worked for me and he loved golf. And uh back in that back in those days, I was still playing golf. And I I said, okay, well, let's just go play golf. And he's like, Oh, okay. So we went out on the golf course one afternoon, you know, and you'd be amazed at the number of things that we talked about, right? Because if if I say I want to get to know you, Ron, and I invite you into my office or I invite you into the boardroom, uh, that's not gonna work. That that's that's not I'm gonna get I'm gonna get a little bit of Ron, right? Yeah, but it I met him on a grounds, on the grounds that he was comfortable with, right? And and we opened up and it was a little tense at first, but you know, by the time we were the back nine, man, everything was fair game, you know. Um, and I had a young lady uh the same way, she um kind of introverted, but she liked to take walks during the course of her day every day. And at the time the facility we were working at had a big lake, so we just walked around. I asked her, Can I join you? And you know, we walked around that lake, you know, four or five times, and by the time the hour was up, boy, I I knew a bunch about her, right? And and so I knew as as she dealt with things, I I knew how to handle it, right? I knew how to approach her, how to delegate for her, and and so forth. Um the the second thing I would say to to leaders is do not be afraid to allow your people time off when needed, right? I I you know we we have gotten, and and I hate this, but we we've gotten to this uh kind of an open-ended time off in corporate America, right? Well, what it has done though is it's almost made people uh feel guilty about taking time off. Yes, right? You know, I used to have three weeks and then four weeks and then five weeks based on the number of years of service I had. Well, now we have, you know, just you know, take time off as you need it. Well, uh I have seen a lot of people who's like, God, I feel guilty about doing that. Well, why? It's your time. And if I have a true relationship with my people, I want them to be able to come to me and say, you know what, I got this situation going on at home. I don't need to know the details, but I know them well enough to know that this is important to them, and they need to be able to deal with it, and I need to support them in that manner. So, hey, work at home, right? Hey, we we did this for five years in corporate America, it didn't go down the tubes, right? But all of a sudden we feel like people don't come back to the office, then then you know everything is gonna go to uh a wasteland or something. Um, you know, let them work at home. Uh if they need the time off, say, you know what, take it. Don't worry about it, we'll cover for you. Right? Don't make people feel guilty for needing time off. Don't act like it's an imposition on you. They're owed that time, let them have it. And then the third thing is I would make sure that people relay to their people, I expect a work-life balance. I do not expect 50, 60, 70, 80 hours consistently out of you. I expect you to work your schedule and I expect you to go home. And when you go home, I don't expect you to sign on when you get home. What you have left will be here tomorrow, right? And we're not gonna, you know, close up doors because you didn't finish an email or because you didn't finish a presentation, or make sure they understand that they have a work-life balance that you want them to uh have, but it starts with you, they've got to see that example in you because I've had people that work for me that if if I tell them, hey, go home, well, you're still here. Well, and I'm doing this. Well, but let me help you. No, no, no. Okay, okay. I told you to go home, I'll go home, right? Yes, you've got to you've got to support your people by supporting a philosophy uh and living it yourself.

SPEAKER_01: 38:25

Yes, yes. They must see you do it. Yeah, so you have a new book coming out. I do. Uh can you share that? And then if you can share your contact information for people to to reach out if they want to get in touch with you.

SPEAKER_02: 38:35

Yeah, the so the first book was called uh how to lead without managing or without just managing, and it's on Amazon. Second book is called Building Genuine Relationships: The Leader's Guide to Connecting. And uh, I hope to have it done what's today, the 13th. I hope to have it done by the end of next week and out on Amazon uh for uh sale. Um, but my contact information is you can find me at williamcdavis.net and uh there I have articles that I've written, uh I have podcasts uh much like yours, the links there for people to be able to jump to it. Um the books that that I'm writing are are the link to Amazon is there. So uh and also it it uh gives a number of the titles of the keynote addresses that I provide. Uh and you know, I I work at keynotes all the time. So if somebody is some somebody sees a subject or has a subject I don't see on there, they say, hey, can you do something and I'll I'll work it up for them. But uh, you know, this is uh this is new for me. So I've I've been at this less than two months, and and uh I yeah, I'm I as we were talking earlier, I'm I'm still trying to feel my way around this process.

SPEAKER_01: 39:51

You know, well, and which is great, you do you're doing all the right things, um, getting on podcasts, writing books, making yourself accessible. I mean, you've done a phenomenal job on the podcast, and and you know, for us, you know, we've been in business now 12 years, so definitely don't mind being a phone call away from you as you do what you you figure out this the landscape and the navigating of the business. But I mean, phenomenal. I'm glad you shared your email. You got books out, uh, if our people can really reach out to you. Um, thank you so much, I mean, for being transparent and sharing openly, you know, on Unpack with Ron Harvey, which is what we do. Um, is we talk real and we have a real conversation.

SPEAKER_02: 40:27

No, Ron, I I enjoyed this a great deal. I really appreciate you and and uh have enjoyed listening to your other podcasts through the through the months prior to joining you. So appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01: 40:39

Thank you, thank you. Well, wish you the best as you do it. And for everyone that's with us all the time, we release a podcast every Monday uh with different guests from around the world. Um, feel free to share it. If you know someone that you think would be a great guest that's going to add value to our audience, that's what the show is really about. Um, feel free to reach out to us. You know, you can always find us on our company's webpage and it gives you everything on Global Course Strategies and Consulting. You'll find everything about me on there. Um, it'll send you to my LinkedIn, which are the two primary sources to reach us. But until next time, William and I will sign off. We wish you the best of luck in your leadership journey. Take care of your team, take care of yourself, and the rest will take care of everything else. Uh, thank you all again for joining us, and we'll sign in off on Unpack with Ron Harvey.

SPEAKER_00: 41:19

Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron Unpacks sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are for the people you serve. Because people always matter.