Unpacked with Ron Harvey
People Always Matter. Join Ron as he unpacks leadership with his guests.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey
Earned Authority: Why New Leaders Are Observed, Not Given Time
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We break down why the first 90 days in a new executive role matter more than most leaders expect, and how earned authority is built through visible, consistent behavior. We share practical ways to start strong, win trust fast, and avoid misreading the moment when everyone is watching.
• why getting the right leader hired is only half the battle
• using intentionality to set tone and expectations early
• “be quick but don’t hurry” as a first-90-days mindset
• symbolic acts that signal values, humility, and respect
• examples like walking to meet leaders, removing executive parking, and leading without announcing a title
• the 25-50-25 rule and how to win the middle 50% early
• managing ego by keeping truth-tellers close and staying open to feedback
• why boards face a leadership pipeline gap and what demographics change in recruiting
• what executive search looks for beyond a resume, including executive presence
• why you cannot change culture in 90 days, but you can earn the right to influence it
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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
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Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this podc...
Welcome And Guest Introductions
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host, Leadership Consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now, to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_00Well, good morning, everyone. This is Ron Harvey, the Vice President, the Chief Operating Officer for Global Course Strategies and Consultant, back again with another episode of Unpack with Ron Harvey. I'm super excited. Very rarely do I get two phenomenal people on the podcast. I think it's only my third time in three years where I've had two people. But we're in the green room having a good time talking about what do we share with you. So, you know, I always invite our guests to introduce themselves. So while I'll, you know, belaboring that. I'm going to move out of the way. We have two phenomenal guests. They're going to take the time to introduce themselves, and then we're going to come to you with leadership, but we don't know what we're going to do after that. So let me hand it over to you, Neil, and we'll get us started.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, Ron. Yeah, my name's Neil Marshall. I'm chairman of Health Search Partners. Um, we're an executive search firm that specializes in uh uh helping hospitals and health systems recruit senior leaders. Uh I've been doing it for about 30 years. Um and one of the things that we've discovered, and what we want to kind of talk about today, is that um, you know, getting the right person uh to run your hospital is only half the battle. The other, the other uh is uh helping that person be successful. Um and so that's what the this 90-day series that we've talked about is all about. And we've interviewed, I mean, I've interviewed 10,000 hospital executives, and um uh what we've decided is that uh you you really need to be able to start strong and you need to come in and in the first 90 days um uh really be intentional and really show up in the right way. And so that's what we're gonna talk about today. Yeah, appreciate it, Neil.
SPEAKER_03Ron, thanks for having us. My name's Kurt Mosley, and I'm the association practice leader for Health Search Partners, and I work closely with organizations to identify leaders who can make a real impact. I work with hospital uh state associations, uh, medical state societies on finding leaders that can help uh lead them to the future. Why we started this uh what we call the first 90 days that define your leadership legacy. Uh, we've learned through our interviews, Ron, that earned authority isn't granted by title, tenure, or your position. It's built quickly through the people, what they see, feel, and experience from you in that first 90 days. And uh sort of a takeaway in healthcare, leaders aren't given time, they're observed. And every interaction sends a single signal to your employees. And that's what we want to talk uh discuss with you
Why The First 90 Days Matter
SPEAKER_03today.
SPEAKER_00Hey Kurt and Neil, thank you so much. I mean, I love what you're saying, and and I'll tell you guys on the show we're talking in the green room, you know, about you know, how do we do it? I say just have a regular conversation. And you gave me a lot to unpack, you know. Um, and what you gave me initially, you know, Kurt, you're talking about, you know, observation and leadership. You know, a phrase I always use is does your audio match your video? You both have done a ton of work. You you see people that that that say one thing and do another. So after placing a hundred hundreds of senior leaders in the role, what separates executives from from people that are not prepared for yet? What do you see as the things that separate a high-level, high-performing executive from someone that's just in an executive role and figuring it out?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, especially coming into a new uh new position, you know, Ron, one one of the things that we talk about is very few people know how to start a job. Yes. Because if you look at an executive, right, maybe in a 30 or 40 year career, he might start a new job seven or eight times, but there's eight years in between, right? So how how do you you it's not something you do every day. It the these are muscles that atropy. So we talk about being really intentional about how you want to go into a new position. Be intentional, know the kind of tone that you want to set, know the symbolic acts that you want to do that are going to show your people. I know that you being in the army, um, there's a lot of symbolism in in the army. And there's a lot of symbolic acts that that leaders do, right? So you understand that. But a lot of people don't understand about the symbolic acts. And I um uh and we just feel like that that really being intentional and knowing those symbolic acts up front. What is the message that you want to give the organization and your people? And we can go through some examples later. Um Kurt, did you have something you wanted to add?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um Ron, I loved your comment about the audio back matches your visual. Um we talk about earth authority, and that's really our sort of our mantra here, but it's when people choose to follow you because they trust how you lead, and that's built through the first 90 days through consistency, visibility, listening, and these early credibility, symbolic acts that Neil talks about, and it's behavior over talk. And in the first 90 days, leaders don't necessarily fail because of strategy, they struggle because they misread the moment. That first 90 days isn't is is imperative to understand that. And they're not about proving what you know, to uh sort of piggyback on what Neil said. It's about showing how you lead, it's not what you did in the past. There's a great book out there by Marshall Goldsmith. It's called What Got You Here Won't Get You There. And what Neil talked about, that you know, knowing that your past experience is not necessarily going to carry over a new experience. You have to read that and understand that and go forward with that in your mind.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think you both gave some really, really great practical responses, you know, and we'll come back to the symbolic act. But but how do you, you know, you you with those executives? Let's be really transparent. We got here because of our talent. And it's so easy to defer back to that when the pressure's on and and and the books are not right, and and and you're being evaluated and people are watching. How do you actually not get caught up into doing that technical thing and becoming a leader when everybody's watching and the lights are hot?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think you uh uh again, I I go back to intentionality, right? Yes. Um uh uh just because you can doesn't mean you should. Um and so as a leader, what you need to do is step back, watch what's going on, decide again the tone that you're that you're wanting to do. Um but you know, let me tell you something. Go going back to if uh if Robert E. Lee had had led Pickett's charge, I don't think that would have been good for anything.
SPEAKER_01Yes, right?
SPEAKER_02He didn't lead it, he had his people lead it. Um uh again, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And Ron, if I could add the uh John Wooden, uh obviously UCLA uh basketball coach from the past and former college player, I think he had seven straight national championships. He had a quote he used to use his players all the time, and it really ties into your question. His quote was be quick but don't hurry. And what do we mean by that, the first 90 days? Well, the to understand, you have to, as Neil said, move with intention. Like, for example, learn the culture before you try to change it, build relationships before trying to drive those results. And everybody's looking for a symbolic act, that first 90 days. And if you do choose one, choose something that's achievable, choose something that's a win-win, and choose something that you can accomplish in that first 90 days. Um, we've counseled uh leaders, you know, CEOs uh throughout America, and a lot of times our cautionary uh advice is uh it's better to do nothing in that first 90 days than to make the wrong mistake and and uh create a create a tough legacy to follow in your career.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thank you, guys. What do you say to the leader? Uh, because it's hard not to do, you know, when you first come in and you're unknown, you want to prove yourself. But but you mentioned earlier, no, that's not that shouldn't be the goal. How do you not let that be the goal when you're the unknown to prove yourself? Because you got the job already, and you still walk in there like you feel like you gotta show everybody you know what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02You know, that's a that's a real good one, Ron, and and and people do that, but the the reality is is that you did prove yourself by getting the position, okay. Um, you don't again, you don't have to lead the charge. Step back, understand. We had uh we had one, one of my favorite uh uh CEOs is a gentleman by the name of Jay Robinson. He's a CEO of a Kaiser um uh hospital uh region out in California. And um he said, what I did in my first 90 days, Neil, is I I met with all 242 of my leaders. 242, and he said, and my symbolic act was I didn't make them come to me. I went to them to meet them. Okay, and the other thing that he did with each one is he said, if things are different in 90 days, if we're successful, what is different? And then he took all of that and he allowed 10 or 12 things to bubble to the top uh after meeting with his 242 people, and that ended up being his roadmap and his strategy, but he didn't come in um uh you know, the the the old uh bull in a china shop. He and again, the symbolic act of him going to them. Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03Um one of our uh CEOs we interviewed, uh his name was Jim Decker, and he wrote a great book on healthcare leadership. It was called Reviving the Heart of Leadership. Yes, and he talked about that first 90 days. Um, he said, uh, I use the 25, 50, 25 rule. We're like, okay, what is that? Never heard of that. And he said, Kurt, uh, the middle is watching. And I said, Okay, you know, go on. And he said, 25% of the people in that first 90 days support you immediately because, like you said, Ron, you're you have the job. 25% at the bottom end may resist or wait, you know, and not know, but 50% are deciding. So he said, Kurt, my advice to every leader in America is win the middle early in that first 90 days and get them on your side, get them to understand your vision, get to under get them to understand your leadership style and how you're gonna lead.
SPEAKER_00Wow, y'all give me so much stuff to want to unpack, but I I gotta go back, you know, Neil, you said earlier, and I want to you know ask for some of your
Symbolic Acts That Build Trust
SPEAKER_00examples. But Kurt, don't let me forget, I want to come back to that middle 50 because I I love the saying, but what are some of the symbolic acts that that you've noticed or you've observed that people actually do? I mean, I love the one where he went and saw all 242 people. What else have you noticed?
SPEAKER_02And you know, listen, symbolic, symbolic acts to me are are they have to be authentic. Okay, it has to it has to be you, but that but that doesn't mean that you can't come up with one. So my favorite one is um the first one I ever saw. So I was a management trainee, and I didn't know what it was when it happened. I knew about it way after, right? Um, but uh I was a management trainee and they fired our CEO, and there were five of us in this training program for an executive training program, and um they fired our CEO. So our new CEO was starting. So all of us trainees were looking out the window, and he pulls into the parking lot, right? He gets out of his car and he walks through the parking lot, Ron, and he picks up garbage. Now there wasn't a whole lot, but he picked it up, took it, threw it away, then came in, introduced himself, said hello, um, never said a word about the garbage. But he demonstrated to us what he wanted. And from that, and I will tell you this Grover Martin never picked up another piece of garbage again because all of us got to the office 10 minutes before him, and we walked through the warehouse and through the parking lot, and we picked up garbage. He didn't have to. So that's a symbolic act, right? Um, uh another uh, and this is in the hospital industry, um the uh uh new CEO comes in his first day, and he sees that they've got executive parking right next to the hospital. There's six or eight parking spaces, that's where all the executives park, and he parks in his his slot. And he walks into his first meeting with his team and he said, People, I believe that our people are the most important piece of what we do. And if we can't retain and attract employees, we're gonna lose. And they all said, Absolutely, absolutely, we agree with you, new CEO. And he said, Well, the first thing that we're gonna do is there is no more executive parking. We now park, we as a team park in the back of the parking lot. And the executive parking is going to be for our employees of the month of each department. They're gonna park there, we're gonna park in the back, but we're gonna use that time every morning. We're gonna walk through the parking lot, we're gonna greet our employees, and they're gonna see that you know what, these people really do think that we're more important than they are because they park in the back.
SPEAKER_03Wow. Yes. And I think real short, one of the uh symbolic acts was one of the CEOs we work with. Is he said in his first 90 days when he would tour and he'd walk the rounds and meet people, he'd eat the the commissary and the um he'd always introduce himself by name, but never say I'm the CEO. And he said it's just because he has the position, as you said earlier, Ron. And he people would say, Who's that? Well, that's the CEO. And people were impressed. He wasn't walking around saying, I'm the new CEO. He introduced himself, asked him you know what was going on, interacted with him, but never said his title. Because, like you said, he he'd earned that title, but he didn't want to, he didn't want to, you know, sit there and say, Well, I'm the CEO, that I'm the person you have to report to. And I really like that symbolic tact.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I love it, Kurt. I'm I will say it, Kurt, I learned that early in the military when I first got promoted to a leadership role. And my supervisor, you know, I I did what you said. I walk in and want to put my title up front and said, if you got to tell them what your title is, you've lost already.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_00I was like, but I work so hard for you.
SPEAKER_02Well, then you know what you do, Ron? Then that's when you look in the mirror and you and you tell your title, or you tell it to all your friends and and and your mom and dad, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes, it was a it was a lesson learned that I carried forever, but at that moment, you know, it's good great that they did it because you you do get caught up in that moment. You work so hard for it, and and you walking with that that on your chest, you know, like it's the Superman cape and it gets you in trouble. I want to go back.
Win The Middle Early
SPEAKER_00You you you both of you were talking about the you know the 2550-25. How does how do executives identify, are there things that they can pay attention to that that will help them cue into who are the 50%? Where the 50% sit at? You know, you'll see the ones that's against you really fast, you'll see the ones that's for you really fast, but how do you define who's is in the middle deciding?
SPEAKER_02You know what? To me, it's the it's the ones that aren't for you and they're will the ones that aren't against you, right? So you take and it may be 25 or it may be 20 or it may be 15, but you the ones that are on your team, that's fine. Yes, the ones that aren't, that's fine too. Focus on everybody else, yeah, right? Because you the the middle is um that's where you're going to get the most bang for your for your effort. Yeah, you because you are going to be able to win, you can win the middle. And you can win the middle in a short period of time. You can't win, you can't win the the the the bottom 25%. You know uh that is something that you you'll win some of them, but it's gonna take a lot of time. Yes.
SPEAKER_03And they're they're the people on the fence, Ron. And it's uh Jim Decker actually said, and when we interviewed him, uh and he highlights this in his book, he said, I uh symbolic act and how I got some of those people in the middle to move. His first day he came in, and there was a I think it was a Duncan Donuts just opened, so he wanted to be impressive in his first meeting. He brought the donuts in, and people had kind of a mixed feeling. And Jim always talked about he never never let a good crisis go to waste. Yes. Well, he didn't know for the last 20 years that the the baker in town was the favorite of everybody. He didn't know it was a personal baker that did the donuts for the last 20 years, admitted his mistake. And the next day he showed he went to the baker and he said, Oh, this this person liked this kind of donut. He came with all the right donuts this time, and he said that people came up to him and said, Glad you read the the issue because they always like that baker. So he turned that crisis into really a symbolic act that won a lot of people in the middle. He listened, he was willing to change and admit his mistake at the start.
SPEAKER_00I I love it. You know, turn the crisis into and no, don't waste a crisis moment. You can learn a lot. What do you say?
Ego, Honesty, And Credibility
SPEAKER_00You know, a couple questions that's that's that's kind of floating to the top for me here, um, that I'm seeing in the work that we do. How do you help leaders that's worked hard, they're very good, they have the credentials. How do you help them manage the ego that can come along with that position?
SPEAKER_02You know what? You have to be able to have people who will tell you the truth. And you have to have the people around you that will tell you the truth, and and then you have to be open to them telling you the truth. Now, not everybody has to be able to tell you the truth, right? Um, you know, as a as a man who's been married for 36 years, um the person who tells me the truth is my spouse. And and and she's told me the truth for 36 years. And and um uh I have to allow her to, right? Um, but you you have to have people around you that will tell you the truth, and then allow them to tell you the truth.
SPEAKER_03I I think Ron, you as a leader, you you have to understand that people aren't expecting you to be perfect in the first 90 days, yes, but they they really want to trust you. So don't worry about you know leading, uh making the right decision, uh, talking about your title. Just uh you have to develop this idea that you're gonna make mistakes, own up to them because people want to know they can trust you and they can want to know that they can come to you and say, I don't agree with what you did, as opposed to being afraid of telling you where they think you're very off course.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
Boards, Aging Workforce, Leadership Pipeline
SPEAKER_00So so when you think of, you know, you're in healthcare, you spend a lot of time in healthcare, which is you know the space that you you do really, really well in. There's a crisis in leadership across all industries. When you start thinking of the crisis that we have and and that we're facing the leadership, what are boards getting right that's working to make sure that we can really get these new executives prepared, equipped, and ready to lead. Because there's a gap in our leadership uh vacuum right now where people are concerned about are we preparing the next CEO?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, I um I've got my son is 27. And I I I kind of talked to him about that. And you know what he did, Ron, is he said, you know what the problem is, Dad? I said, no what? He said, it's you. I said, what are you talking about? He said it's your generation. Used to be that um executives, once they got there, they started kind of riding off into the sunset into their early 60s. But they're not doing that anymore. They're staying when I started in this business, we couldn't present anybody over about 55 years old. Today I wouldn't blink an eye at 55. So that uh yeah, that that that that's an issue. Um, you have to continue to develop your people. Um and then you know what? Um uh one of the largest hospital systems in Texas is uh uh Texas Health Resources. Um, and Doug Hawthorne became the CEO of Presbyterian Hospital, which became Texas Health Resources at 33 years old. Okay. Guess what? You you can they're there, you just have to find them.
SPEAKER_03And one of the things that you talk about boards wrong. Um, getting right, as Neil said, for the first time in America, we have more people 60 and older than we do 17 and younger for the first time in our history. So a lot of times boards will come to us and say we want fresh faces and everything, but you need to be open to these people, these uh, you know, the new 60 is 50, the new 50 is 40. You need to be open to those people because they have a lot of experience, and we just don't have as many younger candidates coming up through the ranks. It's just sheer numbers. It's a mathematical equation. So people, I think people need to be open to these board members or excuse me, these CEO leaders that from 50 50 on are practically are gonna uh think about their career for the next 10 to 15 years and work through 65. So yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00You you you get to look at a lot of resumes, you get to do a lot of interviews, ask a lot of questions. So if someone's you know looking at an executive role, regardless of industry, what is what is something that you look for or ask for that doesn't show up on the resume?
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, so the the resume, Ron, gets you um a meeting with me. Yes, right? Um, and usually the first meeting is short, it's very short. Um 15, 20, 25 minutes. Yes, that then if you got if you pass that, then you go to a a two or three hour meeting. Well, what am I looking for? Um that's not on the resume. I I'm looking for some presence. Right? I'm looking for some executive presence. I'm looking for um that that that you know kind of what you what you want. So for example, I'll have people that say, well, I'm open to anything. Well, guess what? Open to anything means you're open to nothing. Yes. Right? You need you need to be able to give that that doesn't mean you have to pigeonhole yourself, but you can give me uh I I this is what my number one thing, but I'd also be interested in this or this, right? Um but but there's an executive presence that you can feel from people. Yes. Um that that that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a um uh some real presence. Yes.
SPEAKER_03You know, and we have an insight because we usually have a position description, Ron. Yes, so when we're looking at a uh a CV or a resume, if you will, I'm looking to see how their experience matches that position description, you know, where do where do they fit? You know, before we even go down that first road for an interview, that's what I want to look at and see. And it's sort of a perspective, like you're buying a house or buying a car, but you know, how does it fit? How does how does their past experience align with these position descriptions for this new position? Um, and then also just their history. Uh and a lot of times, especially in healthcare, they're looking at uh publications, papers they've written, experience, and most importantly, a lot of uh executive leaders now are uh channeling into they always get a master's in health administration, but a lot of them now are looking at a master's in business administration because let's face it, healthcare has become a financial puzzle that we all have to solve because if not, it's gonna bankrupt us as a country.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I love that you you're sharing. I mean, and because oftentimes when you're thinking of executives, you know, when you think of the work that you're doing and placing executives in a position which costs a lot of money, let's let's you know, to to find that person and spend all that time to spend that revenue and to get them in a position and let it be a flop is not good for anybody. It doesn't work for for for you for you guys and it doesn't work for the organization. What does, with that being said, what what does leading look like beyond
Leading Beyond Title
SPEAKER_00the title? So when you think about, yeah, you're gonna become the executive, but but what does leading look like beyond the title so people don't get caught up in the title of what they're walking into? What does it look like beyond your position of the title?
SPEAKER_02You know, um I'm not sure that I'm gonna I'm gonna answer your question uh the the the the the way you want it, but leading is making everybody else better. Right? If you as a leader can figure out how to make everybody else better, you win.
SPEAKER_00I love it, Neil. You answered it, you you actually answered the question that you know Neil Lady. I don't know if I'm answering away that that you may want me to. No, you were spot on. All right, well, thank you. I wasn't trying to the compliment. That's what I love about Unpack. It it's just a it's a thing really so when people for those that are listening, you know, as Kirk gets ready to respond to the question as well, it's about other people, it's not about you. Right. Leadership will never be about you. It's it's about how do you help other people get the best out of what they're trying to be. Okay, Kurt, what do you want to share?
SPEAKER_03I'm I'm fine, good. Neil hit it right on the head.
SPEAKER_00So I'm gonna look at time and then I got somebody making noise in the background. So I'm gonna um take my one more question. I I didn't think they would they put some gutters up at my house, so y'all get to hear the real real time, but they showed it right in the middle of the interview, so y'all hear all that banging, like real-time leadership. So uh the final question, and then we'll close out with our contact information and everything. What is the most important thing that you would share with leaders that are looking for the executive role that they should do in the first 90 days?
SPEAKER_02Intentionality, decide who you're going to be, who you want the organization to believe that you are, and then do actions that support that and be intentional about what you want the organization, how the you want the organization to see you.
SPEAKER_03I I would probably leave with um uh saying that my father used, I think it was right out of high school, he said, uh Kurt, I'm gonna give you something you know for the rest of your life. And I thought it was gonna be money or a car or whatever. And he said, he goes, I'm gonna leave you with this. And his comment was, and uh it resonates throughout our 90 day series, but his comment was, don't forget it's hard to talk your way out of something you behaved yourself into. And that first 90 days, as you talked about it, does your visual you know match your audio? People are looking into your behaviors in that first 90 days, so it's you know, earned authority is not declared, it's demonstrated in that first 90 days. Your behavior is indicative of your leadership legacy.
Executive Presence And Closing
SPEAKER_00You guys are phenomenal. Um, thank you so much. And I won't stay long because they're making noise some of that. You guys so uh my last my my question I would love for you both to do is tell us tell us how can people reach you if they want you to come on the podcast, they're interested in using your services. Um, can you share that information on the best way to reach you? And if you have any last minute that you want to share as well, uh I'm gonna mute my microphone, but if you have any last minute wisdom you want to share, please feel free to do so as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so what uh what I would say from a last nugget of information is uh uh a leader needs to understand that they don't change the culture. You can't change the culture in 90 days, but what you can do is you can earn the right to influence it. And that's what you want to do and focus on in your first 90 days. So, how people can can reach us, if you're a uh healthcare executive uh and you want to add to your team, um uh uh wanna help uh bring people on, come to our website, healthsearchpartners.com, just the way it sounds. Uh both Kurt and I are very active on LinkedIn. Uh so Kurt Mosley uh on LinkedIn and or Neil Marshall. Um uh and uh we're we're on both LinkedIn and then obviously our website.
SPEAKER_03And uh again, thanks, Ron, for having us. Uh uh my parting shot would be uh at the that first 90 days, uh, build relationships before you start driving results. Because the relationships will help in the results. And as you said earlier, leadership's about elevating other people around you. So build those relationships early on, and they'll drive your results later throughout your career.
SPEAKER_00And you both have been great. You know, uh, and I would love to bring you back. I'll I'm probably saying about 90 days, I would love to bring you back because we're at a time now where people are trying to fill roles, things are happening. And and one of the things you said I would love to do on the next podcast with you, you mentioned executive presence. And I'll tell you that even in our industry, most organizations struggle of what does that mean? People are like, well, what does that mean? Is it how I dress, is it how I talk, is it this like there's this vague thing the believers can't explain it, but they find it on people's appraisal, lack of executive presence. And they're like, what are they talking about? And nobody explains it well. So I love you guys. Um, and you know, if you if you want to answer it now, I'll mute myself. If you want to take it on, I'll be happy to let you address it now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so you know, that's a that's incredibly tough hit because I'll I'll have I'll I'll be presenting a candidate to a client and I'll say, you know, they just have it. And they're like, what do they have? I don't know, but they just have it. Yeah, I'm gonna explain other things that they have, but that one thing, right? That um I I I guess uh the the way that I would answer the executive presence is go find people that have executive presence and watch them and see if there are things that you can do that that keeps you your authentic self, but also helps you um uh develop the presence.
SPEAKER_03And I would add it's I've seen executive presence and the way people and those behaviors. Again, I don't mean to uh keep referring back to those behaviors, but how they handle interactions with people uh that work with them regardless of title. Like they they treat the person in the uh in the cafeteria is the same way they do as the chief nerfing officer, the way they interact, the way they listen to what they have to say, they active listen to make sure they understand the conversations. And through those interactions, that's how that executive presence gets uh elevated and people get to trust you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love you. I mean, solid answers. I'll say from my experience, you know, um, they taught me the military, it's not how you perform when things are going well, it's how you perform when things are total chaotic. Everything that could go wrong is go wrong. Are you still keeping a calm voice? Are you still respecting your people? Are you still listening to your people? Are you still engaging your people? Are you still empowering and delegating? It's not about when it's right because it's easy to do all those things. It's when everything goes haywire. How do you show up? Um, and go ahead.
SPEAKER_03No, I was gonna say Abraham Lincoln said it the best. He said a true test of uh a leader or a man is not what they've done in life, but when you give them power, give them leadership and how they respond. That's how you treat that's how you truly understand that and uh really evaluate that person. I love that comment from him.
SPEAKER_00Love it, love it. Thanks. Anything you want to add to that, Neil?
SPEAKER_02Nope, I'm I'm I'm good.
SPEAKER_00Awesome, awesome. So if you want to put your uh your contact information, I know you're both on LinkedIn. Um, is there any other way that's best um where people can reach out to you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, just uh go to our website. We've got all of our uh emails and uh phone numbers on our website, healthsearchpartners.com.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and um all of our thought leadership, all the articles we write and our uh past podcasts also are on our website. So people want to see what we've done or what we talked about in the past. Uh it's all there for you to see. And please reach out to us if you need anything. Our contact information is on there. It's easy to get a hold of us.
SPEAKER_00Love it, love it. Please reach out to Neil or Kurt. Um, excited. Thank you guys for being on. We'd love to have you back as guests. Um, if you ever find yourself in Columbia, South Carolina, please look us up. Love to grab a meal with you. Um, and for all of you that are listening to the podcast, thank y'all for joining. Thank y'all for hanging in with us. I'm two phenomenal guests. And by the way, share this with someone, let people know we are business owners. We love being business owners, but we are only in business because people like you listen to us and give us the opportunity to serve you. So thank you for that as well. And continue to follow us on LinkedIn. All of us are there. And if you know someone that you think would be a great guest for the podcast to share with the audience that we are catering to, please feel free to reach out to us. We'll be happy to have them and honor to support them as they come on. Until next time, Neil, Ron, and Kurt will sign off. And y'all have a wonderful day. And thank you everyone for joining us and being with us.
SPEAKER_01Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron Unpacks Sound Advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are for the people you serve. Because people always matter.
