How A Superintendent Turned A “Graveyard” District Into A Culture Of Trust And Results with J.R. Green

We talk with retired superintendent JR Green about turning a “graveyard for superintendents” into a destination district by putting culture, courage, and accountability first. We unpack faith over fear, family support, collaboration over competition, and the difference between authority and leadership.

• JR Green’s path from assistant superintendent to 12-year superintendent tenure
• Why “scared money can’t win” and how courage drives change
• Culture as the soil: competence, collaboration, trust, respect
• Showing up in schools to build relationships and trust
• Humility, presence and removing ego from leadership
• Family commitment and season-based support at home
• Owning the mirror and taking responsibility for outcomes
• Collaboration over competition with neighboring districts
• Leader vs authority and how influence beats titles

This conversation is a powerful reminder that authority can force compliance, but leadership earns followership—even without a title. JR’s story challenges us to choose courage over comfort, collaboration over competition, and humility over ego.

If you’re leading through resistance, navigating a tough team, or trying to rebuild trust in a skeptical culture, you now have a clear framework to act on today: show up consistently, build trust intentionally, own outcomes, and lead with conviction.

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow Unpack Leadership, share it with a colleague who needs it, and leave us a review. Tell us—what’s the one culture shift you’re committing to make this week?

Until next time, keep unpacking what leadership really requires.

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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey

“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”

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Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 1:38 JR Green’s Journey And Retirement
• 4:28 Why Say Yes To A “Graveyard” Role
• 9:57 Preparation, Mentors, And Being “Used” To Grow
• 16:46 Faith, Courage, And Handling Controversy
• 20:45 Family Support And Staying Humble
• 25:18 Culture Over Strategy: Fixing The Soil
• 29:46 Show Up, Build Trust, Reduce Ego
• 34:08 Ownership, Accountability, And Change
• 39:10 Collaboration Over Competition
• 44:05 Leader vs Authority And How To Reach JR
• 48:30 Closing And Calls To Connect

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host, Leadership Consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now, to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.

SPEAKER_02: 0:20

Good morning, everyone. Ron Harvey here, the Vice President, Chief Operating Officer for Global Course Strategies and Consulting, a leadership firm based out of Columbia, South Carolina. Been in business since 2013. Love what we do about helping leaders become more effective at taking care of their workforce and getting things done effectively and respectfully. But today I always pause and do bring a guest on our unpack with Ron Harvey. And I love it because we don't have any questions in advance. We promise to talk about leadership. We promise to have fun and we promise to keep it really brief for you so you stay with us for the whole show. So I'm excited to invite a good friend and a guest. I've been knowing him for years and watched him, you know, over time continue to do great work in our area. And I'll let him tell you who he is and what he does. I won't steal any of his thunder, but I'm excited. We've been to breakfast and families are connected. So it's a friend, it's a colleague, it's a peer, and it's someone that that I listen and watch, that also I think listens and watch what I do. So we collaborate a lot on being successful and we're supporters of each other. So uh JR, man, thank you for saying yes. Uh thank you for coming on the show. Let me let me invite you to the microphone, man. And how do you want people to know you?

SPEAKER_03: 1:32

Well, Ron, first of all, I appreciate you having me today. Um, as you said earlier, uh, my name is J.R. Green. Uh, I consider myself to be an unemployed school superintendent. Uh actually I retired, Ron, uh, in June of 2024. Um, and the thing about the superintendency, very often people don't get to retire. Uh, they retire you. Um after after 12 years and serving as superintendent of schools in Fairfield County, uh, and it was an absolutely miraculous run. Um, I decided it was time to maybe transition uh to some other things. And very often people ask me, so jail, you were there for 12 years, uh, it was going so well. Uh, why'd you decide to retire? And my response is always, it was going so well.

SPEAKER_00: 2:21

That's how my decided doctor.

SPEAKER_03: 2:24

And so I'm not gonna wait until it's not going well, and they tell me that I have to leave. And so uh, you know, I'm a 30-year educator who just wrapped up his career uh as a school superintendent, but I was a teacher and administrator and assistant principal and principal and assistant superintendent. So a very traditional route to the superintendency. And for those of us who may not be from this area, you may not know a lot about Fairfield County. But prior to my arrival in Fairfield County, it was really the model of instability. Uh, Fairfield County had had 12 superintendents over a 20-year period. And so as you can see, they were changing superintendents like sides. Um but but I was there for 12 years, uh, and we did some tremendous things to include having the first uh National Blue Ribbon School of Excellence, the first South Carolina Teacher of the Year, the first national principal of the year, and Dr. Tracy Swilly, uh who's now assistant superintendent in Fairfair County Schools, but uh she was the 2025 NASSP National Principal of the Year. And so I'm so proud of all the work that she has done. And so, Ron, I even wrote a book about that journey called Graveyard Blooming Garden. Uh you can find it all over the place, Amazon, you can get it on bookbaby.com, uh, you can get it on my website, jr-green.com. Uh, but really it kind of details uh my leadership journey in Fairfair County uh and how we transform things there. And just to give you a little insight, the name Graveyard, uh, that comes from the fact that Dr. Jim Rex, uh who was uh former state superintendent of the year, uh referred to Fairfair County as the graveyard for superintendents. Um and so state superintendent said that. Uh, and so I wanted to acknowledge that maybe it was a graveyard for superintendent back then, uh, but it isn't now. And so it is a different place. And so uh social time, Ron, I launched Green Team Consultant, uh, which is a firm that does uh leadership development, executive coaching, uh professional development, um uh and do you know lots of keynote addresses and public speaking. Uh, and my most recent venture is a very short, consistent podcast uh called The Mirror Moment, uh, where I really kind of outline these uh kind of leadership snippets. Um and you can see the mirror moment on TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, uh YouTube, uh host of various mediums. So uh I've been staying pretty busy, Ron, but uh excited about the work.

SPEAKER_02: 5:12

Yeah, I mean, and and JR, I mean, we're gonna unpack a whole lot of that. He gave us for y'all that listen, you know, I listen to what people say, and I like what's the what's the question? What you know, um, and and I love it, you know. Good friends, JR does a great job in leadership um and and doing well on matter. Fact, his podcast in what places than mine. I need to get busy. Uh, you know, because I'm not I'm not on all those social media platforms, you know, I'm old school, I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook, and then you can find me on all the Apple products. But JR is doing some good stuff, man, and and he does a lot of what we do, a lot of the same work. And and I say that for people that are listening to this podcast. We're friends, we're not competitors. If he can help me, he does. If I can help him, I help him. Um, there's enough business for everybody. So as you listen to this podcast, I've always said that if there is enough business in Columbia, South Carolina, or the Midlands for seven Chick-fil-A's, there's definitely enough business for me and JR to do business here in Columbia. So please stop destroying people that you think are your competition. You know, keep them close to you. You never know when you'll need them. And that's why, you know, I thought it was important for you to be on a show, JR is and you have fun. Let's let's unpack though. When you were brought in and it was known as the graveyard, like your career ended if you went to Fairfield as a superintendent, you know, 12 and 20 years. It was a career ender. What made you say yes, knowing that you were walking into what was considered a career ender? What was it that was happening that many years ago for you that made you even take that risk?

SPEAKER_03: 6:37

You know, Ron, that's an interesting question. And let me let me give you uh a little background. So I was an assistant superintendent in Chesterfield County, and I was a part of uh a cohort of uh of leaders throughout the state called who they considered to be kind of up-and-coming educational leaders. Uh the cohort was called TEE, Tapping Executive Educators. Uh, and they kind of handpicked people across the state who they thought were kind of the next generation. Well, and it was a two-year program. Well, during one of our sessions, we did a case study, and the case study was on Fairfield County, uh, and around how unstable and dysfunctional the system had had gotten. Uh, and at that time, I said uh during our meeting, I said, you know what, man, I love to go there. And most of the people in the court were like, Man, you gotta be crazy. I mean, why would you love to do that? I mean, we're just talking about how unstable it is, and you say you'd love to go there. And really, my response was, well, just imagine how fulfilled you'd be if you could go to a situation that was previously unstable and create stability. If you could go to some place that was previously dysfunctional and create success. So I love a challenge. Well, I just kind of said it, Ron, but I didn't necessarily know it would come to fruition. Well, maybe a couple of years later, the opportunity came for me to go to Fairfield County. And as I said, that plea, that seed had had already been planted. And I had a lot of people who told me, JR, do not do it. Wait for the next opportunity. You have a bright career ahead of you. I'm telling you, and I had lots of people who go to the graveyard, bro. Don't go to the graveyard. You should go, JR. Uh, and I said, nope, no, I'm I'm going. And quite honestly, Ron, I am a man who's guided by his faith and not fear. Uh, and so I knew that this is where God put me, and the opportunities presented itself. This is exactly uh where I needed to be. Uh, and and the rest is history. I, you know, I as I said, we went from 12 superintendents in 20 years to me being there uh for 12 years uh and leaving on my own.

unknown: 9:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 9:02

Uh, you know, a lot of my colleagues can't can't say that, uh, and and it's no disrespect to them, it's just the nature of the work. Uh very often uh you don't leave when you want to leave, you leave when someone tells you you have to leave. Uh, but that wasn't the case for me. I mean, I stayed wonderful community, wonderful school board, wonderful students. Um, and I used to say all the time, if I could be the superintendent of schools anyway in the work, it would have been right there in Fairfield County. Uh, and that's the only place I served as superintendent. And Ron, I'll tell you, I had opportunities uh to go other places uh during that 12-year tenure, uh, but I was committed uh to showing that we could have stability in Fairfield County. Uh, and as such, I decided I was gonna retire right there.

SPEAKER_02: 9:51

So I want to unpack this for you. I mean, you you you know, you planted a seed, and for leaders that are listening, you gotta see it before you do it. That's the reality. And you saw it way before you were there, and it took, you know, like I say, maybe three years later, but you saw it three years in advance. So I being that you planted that seed, J.R., what did you start doing to prepare for something that wasn't gonna come for another three years? And patience is in there, and some leaders are not patient, they want it right now, today, and they don't want to wait and they want to force their way into it. What did you do over those three years after you planted that seed?

SPEAKER_03: 10:26

You know, Ron, I always tell leaders, bloom where you plant it. Okay. Um, and don't necessarily worry about the job you want, put your focus on the job that you have. Uh, and I'll tell you, uh, as assistant superintendent for curriculum and instruction in Chesterfield County, I tried to be the absolute best leader I could be. I tried to do a job that would cause someone to notice me when opportunity came about to become a superintendent candidate. Uh, and I think that's a that's a mistake that sometimes leaders make is they put so much focus on the job that they won't, they forget about the job that they have. Uh, and so I put my focus around on being the absolute best assistant superintendent for curriculum and instruction that I could be. I put my focus on creating as many well-rounded experiences as I absolutely could. And I want to give a shout out to this individual, Dr. Johnny Williams. Uh, Dr. Johnny Williams hired me as principal of Central High School and hired me as assistant superintendent for curriculum and instruction, and he really cultivated and molded me to put me in a position to be a superintendent. And and so very often people don't recognize how important it is to have someone who cultivates uh your career. And he was someone who absolutely did that. And I had a lot of people along the way from Steve Wilson when I was at Keenan High School to Ron Cowden uh when I was at Spring Valley High School. But I have been blessed, Ron, with people who have taken an interest in growing my career and not necessarily putting in putting me in positions that can just benefit them, but would also benefit me.

SPEAKER_02: 12:18

Wow. Wow. I mean, and GR loving loving your conversation and so much to unpack with you. So you when you were assistant superintendent, what do you tell leaders that's in that role that wants to be a superintendent? How do they show up to make sure they're supporting the person that's the current leader where you are and doing a really good job? Because sometimes you can get caught up and wanting that new position that you don't do as good of a job as you can for the person you're working for that's currently holding the position that you're interested in in another location.

SPEAKER_03: 12:50

So let me give a little context to uh to Chesapeake County, and this is gonna make sense to you. So Dr. Dr. Um Johnny Williams hired me as principal of Central High School, uh, and I became the first black principal in the history of the school. And and when I got there, uh I really didn't know it at the time, um, but it was a big deal when this young bow tie win brother arrived. I mean, it was quite the starting.

SPEAKER_02: 13:21

For those of y'all that watching the video, I don't even know how to look at it right now. He got a bow tie on. That's all I have. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, both tie young guy.

SPEAKER_03: 13:32

In fact, when I got there, there were many people who said, Are you a Muslim? Uh you in his bow tie. I said, No, I'm a Methodist. Uh, and so uh, so so so Dr. Johnny Williams hired me as first black principal in the history of Central High School. Um, and that took some courage from him, let me tell you. I mean, because he had a lot of options other than hiring this young bow tie win brother. Uh, but he took a chance on me, uh, and we did tremendous things at the school. Well, fast forward four years later, Ron, he hires me as the first black assistant superintendent for curriculum. Well, really, the first black assistant superintendent in the history of Chesapeake Accounting. Let me let me say that.

SPEAKER_00: 14:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 14:17

So he hires me to be in charge of uh all of the curriculum and instruction throughout the district as assistant superintendent, which was an absolutely bold move for him. Now, I had a lot of people during my tenure as assistant superintendent who would often tell me, man, Dr. William is using you. He always put you out front to do this and he's putting you out front to do that, and he's sending you to this church and he's sending you there. And I say, Well, he better use me. That's why he hired me. Yeah. I mean, what did you think he hired me for? I say, so for any of you who complains about Dr. William, let me remind you, I wouldn't even be in Chesterfield County if he didn't show the courage to hire me first as a principal and then as an assistant superintendent. The first ever.

SPEAKER_00: 15:10

Let him use you. Like let him.

SPEAKER_03: 15:12

I love what you said, JR.

SPEAKER_02: 15:14

He used you, and people are going to spend that conversation, but you felt that hey, he better, he hired me, he better put me up front. And I say, for people that are listening, JR, who's saying your name in a room that you want to get in that's gonna be behind you and push you out front. You can use using or you can use promoting. What language are you using of letting them use you to for you to get better so you have an opportunity? He took a risk, which means he had confidence in being in that and you had to trust him. Can you speak to how much you trusted him to even let him do it?

SPEAKER_03: 15:46

Oh, Ron, let me tell you, I I knew without a shadow of a doubt, uh, that this gentleman not only had the best interest of the Chesapeake County School District in the forefront, but also my future. Um, and so while some people said he was using me, he was preparing me.

unknown: 16:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 16:08

And so by the time I got to Fairfield County, I had been accustomed to engaging with the community much more than maybe other some other assistant superintendents. I had been accustomed to engaging with the board maybe more than some other assistant superintendents. I remember, Ron, um, this is during the the Great Recession, where we had, oh man, I can't remember what the deficit was, but I remember we had to cut 41 positions from the budget. And Dr. Williams said, Jay, I'm gonna put you in charge of that. Uh, so you you you need to figure out how we cut that from the budget. Now, some people would say, well, man, you're giving me the most difficult task, but it prepared me, Ron. It prepared me to have some very difficult conversations with some people because now I gotta figure out how we trim millions of dollars on the budget. Yes, and so I didn't look at it as if he was using me, I looked at it as if he was preparing me, yeah, preparing me for my next job. I mean, so yeah, yeah, he could have said, Well, I don't want to put JR out there where he's gonna do anything that's gonna be controversial, that he's gonna make everybody upset, that he he could take it at my shine. I mean, he wasn't worried about any of that. I mean, he's very comfortable in who he was. Um, and quite honestly, Ron, he he was preparing me to be a superintendent.

SPEAKER_02: 17:34

Yeah, I love it, J.R. J.R. You mentioned something I want to unpack because oftentimes we as we're looking for leadership and we want to be successful, and whether it's professional or personal in your life, you didn't make it to those levels and last for 12 years with no controversy. What do you tell leaders that are listening, especially you know, as we look at there's controversy everywhere for for all reasons right now? How do you help people stay level-headed, stay positive, stay effective, and effectively manage controversy?

SPEAKER_03: 18:05

You know, Ron, I um I have a chapter in my book, uh, it's titled Scared Money Can't Win. Yes. And uh and I get that from uh some of my uncles uh when they used to gamble. And as a young boy, I probably had no business there with them gambling, but but I would be there, listen to all the stories. You know, and one of their statements was always scared money can't can't win. Um and and what they were saying was, uh, and one of my brothers, Ron, you can appreciate this, who is retired National Guard, he's always telling me in the military, we say, JR, you can't do a job if you're scared to lose a job.

SPEAKER_00: 18:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 18:45

Um, and so so you have to do what's right and just be faithful that it's going to work out. Now, I tell leaders all the time, Ron, that doesn't mean that you won't get fired. Yes. Because you can do right and still lose the job. Now you can do that. You can do everything right and lose a job, yes, and still get fired. So that doesn't mean that, but guess what? You're gonna sleep good at night. Yeah. Um, and and and if you are good at what you do, other opportunities will present themselves. When I arrived in Fairfield County, I'll never forget I had a meeting, one of my good buddies, the name of Tony Armstrong, the name is Tony Armstrong, uh, and he and I did some good work starting the Griffin Bowtie Club, me, him, and a gentleman by the name of Vernie Kennedy. And after my first board meeting, me and Tony, one of the school board members and two other individuals uh was sitting outside for the meeting after the meeting. Yes. And uh and Tony, uh Tony told me, he said, he said, uh, he said, I'm gonna tell you, Doc, uh, you mess around and come to Fairfair County and do something that uh that people don't like, they're gonna run you off. Uh, you're not gonna last here. And I said, Well, let me tell you what, Tony. If I do something that doesn't work out, guess what? But I'm just gonna do something else because that didn't mean that everything I do is gonna be right. But I can tell you what, I'm not gonna sit back and be scared to do anything because I'm scared to lose the job. If you're scared to do something wrong, you're never gonna do anything right. And so I always had that philosophy from day one line, uh, that I'm guided by my faith, not by fear. Uh, and I'm gonna do what I think is right and just let the troops fall as they may. Uh, and so as you said, I have I I pushed down some paths that some people would maybe shy away from. Uh, I might have rubbed some people the wrong way because I tackled some issues that maybe people didn't want to tackle. Uh, but I think generally speaking, Ron, people have respected my position because it never came from a uh from a from a place of of ill will. Um it came from a genuine place uh where we wanted uh to improve as a system, as a state. Um I I pushed families, um, I push teachers, I push administrators, I push the state superintendent of education, I push my boy, I want them to push me. Um as they say, I ain't sharp as iron, Ron.

SPEAKER_02: 21:16

Yeah, I love it. I mean, you push them and you and you, and I want everybody to hear what you're saying, JR, because you pushed them and you wanted to be pushed. You always strive to be better. How did you manage the fact that you were the first um and you were chosen and you were selected and you went to the graveyard and you stayed there for 12 years? JR, I've always, ever since I met you years ago, and I met you just through counterparts, no, two the first question is how did you manage to stay humble knowing that that people were watching and you had to get it right? How did you stay humble?

SPEAKER_03: 21:50

Yeah, Ron, first of all, I'm telling you, Doc, a lot of prayers. Uh I I you you you gotta stay in prayer there. Um, and and Ron, it was uh it was a family commitment. I talk about that in my book as well. Uh my wife and my children always made sure I kept things in perspective. And I am a girl dad. Uh, and in fact, I just spoke to uh one of my daughters, Jamal, who's uh presenting at a conference in Australia. Uh so it's it's about 10:30 Australia time, but she called me today just to talk about what she was doing. But I have three daughters, Jamal, Janelle, and Jaycia. Uh Janelle is a software engineer in in Bentonsville, Arkansas, at Walmart. Uh Jamal works for a company called NACO. Uh, and and Jaycia is a third-year student at Clemson University, uh, pursuing a career as a dermatologist. Um, and so it was always a family commitment, Ron. And my children always made sure I kept things in perspective. Now, I acknowledge uh that it came with sacrifice, and so my children have probably visited more churches and went to more meetings and more games and uh and more things that were part of the job as maybe they wanted to. Uh, but they understood that uh it's a part of what our family does. And so, Ron, I I think with prayer and the fact that I had a family uh who always kept me grounded uh was essential uh to me keeping things in perspective.

SPEAKER_02: 23:28

Yeah, I love it. You bring in the family, you're bringing the patience, you bring in the humble, you talk about, you know, hey, you can't do a job if you're worried about losing a job.

SPEAKER_03: 23:37

Ron, let me say this before you go to the next thing because I don't want to leave out the most important person out of that whole equation, which was my wife, uh Tony Green. Uh I talked about my girl, but but I give my wife immense credit because in many instances she had to carry a heavier load. Yes. Uh, you know, there were many times I was worried about putting out fires and dealing with other people's children and other issues, and and my wife had to carry a heavier load because I wasn't there as much. So uh let me let me give my wife a shout out who uh and another bit of irony, Ron, at the time that I accepted a position in in Fairfield County, my wife was a uh a DBA dollar-based analyst with VC Summer Nuclear Plant. So she was already working in Fairfield County, and so that's when I knew this thing is really all coming together because now we can be in Fairfield County. My wife isn't far from her job, the children are there together. Uh, it was just uh the right fit. And so shout outs to my wife, uh uh who did a yeoman's job uh in helping to navigate uh this family uh and take care of my children while I was out taking care of someone else's.

SPEAKER_02: 24:56

Yes, yes, and thank you for for doing that and keeping both of us out of trouble, you know, because you know you'll be at work, which you know, y'all ain't mentioned me. I heard them girls' names, but you forgot about me, girl dad. You know, so I'm glad you cleaned that up to help both of us out. And but you said something that's for all people that are are professionals and your spouse is professional, people want work-life balance. I said sometimes your spouse will carry a heavier load than you will, and sometimes you it's never 50-50 all the time. So if you're looking for 50-50, you're probably gonna have some some very uncomfortable conversations because it's not really 50-50. There are times when JR just told you that he he couldn't be there when he needed to be there, wanted to be there, and he was taking care of other people's kids, which means his wife had to not feel guilty, not feel angry or resentful that she had to do some of the stuff he normally would do so she can support him. That's support all the way around. So, as you're listening, make sure you bring your family into the fold, a part of the decisions, the work that you're doing, make it a family affair. It's important, and he tells you that's what he did. That's what I do. So if you listen to us, make it a family affair.

SPEAKER_03: 26:00

Ronald, I'll tell you without a shadow of a doubt, uh, my tenure in Fairfield County would not have been successful without the commitment of my wife and children. Yeah, it it just absolutely would not. I could not have done it without the commitment of my wife and children, without the sacrifice of my wife and children. Without the sacrifice of my wife and children. And so um if if if if if my wife and children aren't on board, then there's always tension there. Yes. You follow me? I mean, I'm not in the right kind of space. I mean, there's always tension there, but but my wife was was supported 100% and accepted the fact um that this is the profession with which I have chosen, uh, and she is going to be there uh to support her husband. And my children uh felt the exact same way. You know, Ron, when when I took the job in Fairfield, my my twins were rising sixth graders. And so they were previously at Pontiac Elementary School because they were going to school in Richmond too. Um and when I came home and I said, I got good news, Daddy has a new job. Uh, dad's gonna be superintendent of schools in Fairfield County, and they were excited, oh yeah, as a sixth-grade kid would. Yeah, uh, I said, but it was a twist. Um, now you have to go to a new school. Uh now you'll be going to school in Fairfield County because we're getting ready to move to Fairfield County. Well, in Richmond too, sixth grade is middle school. Yeah, in Fairfield, sixth grade is elementary school. So elementary goes case six in Fairfield, middle school is seven, eight.

SPEAKER_00: 27:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 27:46

So my girls found out they were gonna be in elementary school for another year, they were devastated. So we're not going to middle school, we're gonna be in elementary school for another year. Uh that would they didn't like that. All right. Um, but but they sucked it up, yeah. Uh and then another another year in elementary school, uh, but they did well.

SPEAKER_02: 28:09

Yeah, they're resilient, but but you you're transparent, you talk about it, and you don't just you know walk away from it. Yeah, I want I want to I want to pivot a little bit. So you talk about the family relationship. I want uh can you share in your journey uh of this 12 years, you know, doing a phenomenal job? Well, let me back up. There's a question I want to ask that you you said that that Fairfair had great talent before you got there. What did you do, JR, to bring the talent out of those people? Because it's not like you replaced the whole district. What did you do to for people to get on board? Because it was already there and you brought it out. What did you do to bring out because it's it went from graveyard to destination place now? What did you do to let people show up for real and change their whole mindset and do a better job? And it had always been there.

SPEAKER_03: 29:00

You know, Ron, you you you just spoke to the last chapter in my book, Graveyard of Bloom and Garden, where where I really outlined the fact that the greatness existed long before I got here.

SPEAKER_00: 29:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 29:11

I just helped to facilitate what was already here. And so I didn't I didn't bring anything here. Um it was already, it was here when I when I arrived. The one thing that we focused on from day one, Ron, was culture. The the culture had become dysfunctional, the culture had become toxic, and and as I say very often, you can go get the best seeds from around the world. Yeah, premier seeds from all over the world and put them in bad soil, and it won't bear fruit. And that's what had existed, Ron. We had a toxic culture, and I tell people that negative toxic culture is just like barren salt. Yes, you can put greatness in it, but it it it it won't mature, it won't grade, it won't it won't bear fruit. And so from day one, my focus was on culture. You know, one of my mirror moments, I mirror moments, I talk about how culture trumps strategy all day and twice on Sunday, it eats strategy for breakfast. Yes, and so from day one, we said everything we do, and I want you to reflect on it, it will contribute to a culture of competence, collaboration, trust, and respect. Everything we do in this district will contribute to establishing a culture of competence, collaboration, trust, and respect. And it doesn't happen overnight, but over time, you'll see the culture begin to shift. And for any leader, if you want to identify any one thing that you can do, Ron, to transform your organization, I tell you put your focus on culture.

SPEAKER_02: 30:55

Yes. Yeah, I love that you're saying it. You know, I I build a framework and people you know that follow me, I always make a statement, people always matter. What did you what did you do to make sure that those people not that you just said it, because I'm sure 12 superintendents over 20 years have said it but didn't deliver on it. What did you actually do to deliver on it? You personally, you know, so so so what did you walk and do it? Can you show the audience the things you started intentionally doing consistently?

SPEAKER_03: 31:25

Yeah, the first thing Ron is is showing up. Um, you know, what if Dr. Swillie said, she jokingly said, you know, when I when I first uh I hired Dr. Swillie uh as during my second year. So uh I hired her my second year as superintendent. So she had been there 11 years when I retired. But she said when she first arrived there, uh she had a code word for when the superintendent is in the building. Yes, and so when people would see me, I don't know what the coach, he didn't tell me what the code word was. Let's say the code word was marshmallow. I mean, so that means Dr. Green's here. But she said, Dr. Green, you were here so much. I told him, just forget about that code word. I mean, don't worry about that. I mean, because he heard it. He'll say that all day, he's gonna figure it out soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He here all the time. So don't let's don't even worry about that code word. So, Ron, number one, was showing up. Um, and and and Javonda Brown, who who was my executive assistant, would tell you um, most days I didn't even come to the office until I don't know, maybe nine, ten o'clock. I mean, I but I started my days out in school somewhere. Um, and so people got accustomed to seeing me, people develop relationships with me, people began to trust me. And Ron, I tell people you can't have trust without relationship. Nope. So anyone who says that, oh, I don't know why the people don't trust me, it's because you don't have a relationship with them, they don't know you. And so I'd go to schools, Ron. I'd visit classrooms, talk to kids, I talk to teachers, I go to the cafeteria, what y'all cooking in here today? I'm coming back to get me something to eat. I mean, I'm which I mean, I'm I'm I'm everywhere. Okay, and so my presence was was felt everywhere, and it was all about developing relationships with people. And when people have relationships with you and they trust you, Ryan, they'll run through brick walls for you. Yes, and it won't necessarily be your vision, it'll be our vision. Uh, you know, we weren't we weren't big on having these mission and and and mission statements. I mean, these long convoluted things. Uh, we had two things that people really embraced when I was there. One was our motto, and our motto said that excellence through teamwork. That's how we're gonna get there. And I wanted everybody to recognize, Ron, that I won't do it, school board won't do it, the teachers won't do it, the parents won't do it, the students won't do it, the deacons won't do it, the pastors. It'll take all of us to do it. And if we are what we say we want to be, it'll take the collaborative uh efforts of us all. And our other thing was our slogan, Ron, was recognizing that we were on a journey. So we said we were going from ordinary to extraordinary.

unknown: 34:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 34:18

And I and I reminded people that this was a journey with no destination. We are constantly traveling, we're constantly pushing, never beginning uh getting complacent. And so um the entire culture shift required that I I reduce myself, Ron. Too often people say, Well, I'm the leader, you need to lift me up. You want me to treat my ego?

SPEAKER_02: 34:49

Come on, man. I work all the superintendent, got this doctoral degree. I got all these years, especially. They hired me. Don't you know they hired me? They brought me because y'all were broke. You want me to you want me to like treat my ego like for real, man? Come on, bro.

SPEAKER_03: 35:01

Now it's not about you, bro. I I remember one day I was pulling up to one of the schools and and one of the monitors, uh, security monitors, she told me, she said, you know what, Dr. Green? I'm always amazed that whenever you come, you don't ever worry about where you have to park, you don't ever want us to save you anything, you just park anywhere that's available. And I said, Yeah, I mean, I that's what service is about. Leadership isn't about being served, it's about it's about serving others. Uh, and so I've always had that mindset with my ego that bothered me. You know, Ron, quite honestly, when I go places, you can ask anyone this now, yeah. I don't ever introduce myself as Dr. J.R. Green. Nope. You know, it's you know, yeah, I don't know. My name is J.R. Green. Um, and if if you ask, did I earn a PhD? Uh I'll I'll I'll I'll tell you that, but that doesn't that doesn't define who I am. I mean, and quite honestly, nobody cares. You know, so I'm just that big ego guy.

SPEAKER_02: 36:15

J, how did you how did you because this is, I mean, a lot uh, you know, you walk into an organization that that everybody has said that the people you you fail there because people don't come together, people don't trust, organization was broken, which means they're saying the people are broken. How do you walk in without making that judgment and come to that conclusion and you start looking down on people? How did you not do that? Because that was important that you saw the value versus the brokenness.

SPEAKER_03: 36:42

So, so Ron, first of all, I already had some insight into Fairfield County. Remember, I talked about Dr. Steve Wilson, um, who was who had hired me as assistant principal at Keenan High School. He was a graduate of McCorrey Liston High School, which is in Fairfield County. He's from Fairfield. Uh, in fact, we named the uh the cafeteria at Macquarie Liston after his mother, who's the cafeteria manager there for oh, 30 or 40 years. Uh, and so I'd already known a little bit about Fairfield uh before I arrived, and I knew the rich history that existed there over many years. And as much as people may look at the recent tenure or prior to my arrival and talking about all the superintendent turnover, there was a lot of history outside of that, whatever that 20-year period was. So, Ron, I went in understooding, uh understanding the greatness that already existed there, and I understood the assignment. You know, Ron, leaders who say it's the people's fault that the culture isn't bad, they're missing that the culture is bad, they're missing them up.

SPEAKER_01: 37:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 37:55

Anytime a leader looks at an organization and they are critical of the organization, you gotta first start being critical of the leadership. And so the man in the mirror. The man in the mirror. You gotta first start looking at yourselves. And so, Ron, anything that existed in the district that wasn't where I thought it needed to be, I took ownership of that. Yeah, that was my responsibility. When I first moved there, people said, Man, the system is so unstable. Do you have any apprehension about taking your children out of school in Richmond II and putting them in school in Fairfield? I said, Well, I'm the superintendent. If there's a problem with the system, who do I have to blame? Okay, I absolutely not. If I'm the superintendent and I'm telling you the other problem with the system, who am I gonna blame? So, no, I have absolutely no apprehension about it because I have the responsibility to make sure that their experience, in addition to all the other children's experience, is a world-class experience. And so taking ownership, Ron, I think is the key, uh, and not placing blame on someone else. You know, it always baffles me when I hear leaders say, well, the people weren't ready for change. The people weren't ready for change. Whose responsibility is it to get the people ready for change? I mean, who it's it's your responsibility to get the people ready for change, or the people weren't ready for what I was I was presenting. Well, it's your responsibility to cultivate it. I mean, so it all comes back to what your responsibility as a leader, and I own every bit of that, Rob. I told the school board you could never hold me more accountable than I hold myself.

SPEAKER_02: 39:49

Wow, I love it, man. I I love it. You know, I'm sitting here, you know, we're we're we're doing a debate this Friday coming up, you know, just invited you and your spouse. Um, but I'm thinking I Here at 20 in 2026, and we get ready to do it in October to have you on there because what you're sharing is what we speak to. Um, you know, real, fun, enjoyable. But how do you hold yourself accountable and no one can hold you to a higher standard? I want to be able to wrap up for us, but you spoke to something that was super important for every leader that's listening. How valuable was it for you to recognize and build relationships for you to be successful? You talked about the family part of professionally. How important was it for you to build professional relationships? I mean, you're saying names, you remember who they are, where they were, dates, and all that stuff. How important were relationships to your success?

SPEAKER_03: 40:38

You know, it was violent, Ron. I I, you know, I developed a network of colleagues across this country whom I could I could call on at any point in time, who I could bounce ideas off at any point in time, who could call on me as in at any point in time. And I always say, Ron, you said something that was profound, uh, that some people have have challenged me on, but I've told them, folks, none of you all are my competitors.

SPEAKER_00: 41:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 41:09

I'm not in competition with with Randall Gary and Spartanberg. I wasn't in competition with Baron Davis in Richmond 2 or Sean Fauston in Orangeburg. I'm not in competition with anybody. My goal is for all of us to be the absolute best that we can be, and we got to change that paradigm.

SPEAKER_00: 41:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 41:29

Because when you feel as if you're in competition with someone, you see it as a zero-sum game.

SPEAKER_00: 41:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 41:36

You know, I was I was at the Career Center in FLC because I'm helping them with some work there, uh, and I was talking to the Career Center director, Dr. Cleve Pilot, about the um the gaming team. And they participated in a competition at Benedict this weekend, and uh he had a kid come in first and a kid to come in third. And so we were just celebrating uh the good work that they had done. But then we talked about the fact that when Orangeburg County School District was trying to develop a gaming program, they came to visit our gaming lab.

SPEAKER_00: 42:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 42:11

And so uh Sean called me, he sent some representatives down from Orangeburg, they came and visited. We gave them all the information about how we set it up, where we purchased it, the whole, the whole nine yards. Uh and Sean jokingly said, Well, JR, I told my people that my lab better be better than JR's lab in Fairfield. But I know what he was saying jokingly, but the point is this, Ron, if I see Sean as a competitor, then I don't want to share that with Sean. Absolutely. Because I don't want Sean to do what I'm doing. I don't want Sean to be better than I am. When I started the Stemberly College Academy in Fairfield County back in 2012, when we had students to earn an associate degree in science, I mean that people were really impressed by that. Well, my colleague who was in Batesburg at the time, who's now in Spartanburg, Randall Garrett, he said, Jay, I'm gonna send a team of people to Fairfield because we want to replicate what you're doing. We want to do that in in Batesburg. I said, absolutely. Send them on down. So Ron, you're right. We gotta we gotta get out of this mindset that it's a zero, it's a zero sum game. Folks, there's enough greatness for everybody. And I don't, I don't have to, I don't have to put you down and lift me up. I don't have to stand on you in order to stand me up. I mean, so um I I I've never I've never adopted that kind of mentality uh because I think it's counterproductive. Yeah, we can we can have a competitive spirit where everybody wants to make everyone else better, but I'm not trying to be better than you because you know, I one of my buddies who tried to challenge me on this, he said, Well, JR, uh, I mean, competition is good. I mean, because you know, competition makes you better and makes me better. And I said, Well, competitive spirit is good, but I don't want to see it like I see a football game. Yeah where I gotta have more points than you at the end of the quarter. Because if my goal is to have more points than you, I don't want to make you better because that's gonna cause you to get more points than me. See, if we just have a competitive spirit, I want you to get as many points as you can get, and I want to get as many points as I can get. That's the difference, okay? That's the difference between being a competition.

SPEAKER_02: 44:24

Yes, I love it, and and I say that, and I hope everybody's listened to that. In reality, we we both practice it. At the end of the day, I want you to be successful. You want me to be successful, we're supporting each other, and I think that we got to be really, really mindful when it becomes detrimental to be destructive. Um, that that we it's a zero-sum game, and I think there's enough for all of us to be to be really, really good at what we're doing and make the community better. Our company got in business because someone took three days out of their company to show my wife and I how to run our company. We had no clue. And we flew to Washington State, and I can tell you that she walked us through every single thing and put us in front of her clients to let us see how to navigate and have conversations. And people say, Where did you learn it? I say, someone shut their company down for three days and brought us in. And and and so, why do I give back so much and why do I think we got to get there? Everything that I know, JR, I was not born with any of it. Someone poured into, invested into, educated, gave to, mentored, sponsored, advocated, championed everything that I know, I got it from somewhere. I wasn't born with any of this knowledge. And I think we got to get past the point of because you know it makes me less good. I think we're both great. We can stand beside each other on the stage and deliver something totally different, even though we do the same thing, because it's your fingerprint. So for those of you that listen, stop destroying people for you to feel good about yourself or for you to feel like you're gonna be better. Learn to collaborate. I actually use a word called co-opetition, which means cooperate with your competition.

SPEAKER_03: 45:55

I like that, Ron. I'm I'm gonna steal that one, bro.

SPEAKER_02: 45:58

I'm gonna steal that one. Cooperate with them and make it make the world a better place for all of us. JR, as we come to a close, man, you've shared a lot of great stuff, man. It's been fun, it's been enjoyable, you've been transparent. What would you share with leaders that you want them to walk away with? And when you finish that, tell us how to get in touch with you and where we can find your book. Give me two things, and not even a number, whatever that number is, what is what is what would you like to leave them with as we wrap up?

SPEAKER_03: 46:22

You know, Ron, I talk about this in, I don't know, my maybe third or fourth um uh mirror moment episode. And I think it's one thing that has resonated with me over time that I want all leaders to really reflect upon. Uh, and it's something that I heard from Simon Sate many, many years ago that says, Are you a leader or are you an authority? And and I think too often people confuse the two run. Yes, I think they think leadership is about having authority over people, it's about being the boss and telling people what to do, but they aren't leading anyone. Uh, and so everybody has to self-reflect about what space you'll really you'll really occupy. Because if you're simply an authority, people will do what you say to comply to keep their jobs. Yes, but but people are not gonna comply to greatness, yes. You will lead people to greatness, but nobody's gonna comply to greatness, and you aren't gonna scare anyone into greatness. Leaders, people will run down, they'll run through, they'll climb over, they'll do anything in the world because they don't want to disappoint you, and and they feel as if the vision that you outlined is not just your vision, it is their vision. Um, and and so how do we go from that space of simply being authority as people who have been who have been placed in charge to now being leaders, Ron, who people follow even if you had no title. And that's when you know you have reached that point. I don't need to tell anyone that I'm the leader. I didn't, I didn't run. I didn't need to go anywhere and say, hey, hey, hey, wait a minute, I'm in charge. Hey, I'm I'm superintendent, I'm I'm the chair, I'm the you don't need to do that. All right, because if really you in charge, then you don't need to tell anybody. All right, and so that that's the one bit I leave you with, Ron, is that let's focus on being leaders and not simply authorities. As it relates to where you can reach me, Ron. Uh, as I said earlier, uh I have a website uh that really outlines the work of Green Team Consultant, uh Jr-green.com. Uh my number is 803-261-9113. Uh, you can reach me on LinkedIn, uh, you can reach me on Facebook. Um, you can call me, you can email me at uh JRG466642 at gmail.com. Uh so uh excited about uh the next phase of my professional journey, Ron. I mean it was great being a superintendent for 12 years, great being an educator for 30 years, uh, but I'm just as excited about my work around leadership and development and speaking and all the other things that we engage around uh in my role as CEO of Green Team Consultant.

SPEAKER_02: 49:23

Yeah, G. I think you just made the stage bigger. Um and I tell people all the time, you know, with the work that I do, people offer all the time, hey man, you want to be the CEO or you want to come into the company? And I and I said, no, the stage is much bigger. I want to be able to help more than just one. And I'm excited to have you in the field with us, and and you're gonna challenge us to get better, and we're gonna and we're gonna challenge you to get better and do great work and hold each other accountable. You know, that's what makes up our community. So I'm excited that you came on the show, excited that that you're in the space where we are now. Um, and for all you that are listening, I mean, JR does good work. I mean, he has a good book out there, and he's real. He gave you all this contact information. Reach out to him. If you use his services, by all means, um reach out, you know, and ask questions and figure out who he is and what he's doing and what you're trying to get done. And for all you that are watching and listening and have been with us, thank y'all for joining us on Unpack with Ron Harvey. You know how to find me. I'm on two primary sources is my email. You can always reach me at rharvey at gcs.consulting. Um, and you can always find me on LinkedIn on the two primary sources. I put stuff on Facebook, but professionally, uh email me directly or check check out our website um and you'll find everything about us there. But until next time, Jerry and R JR and I are really happy that y'all stayed with us. Hopefully, you have fun with us. Um, and by the time you listen to this, we will be doing other great things and we'll probably be the spoken a couple places. If you need a speaker, reach out to either one of us. Um, we're excited about it. We're business owners. We love to have an opportunity to earn your business. We don't feel obligated that you bring us in, but we love the opportunity to be at the table for the conversation. Um, we'd love to earn your business and help make this community a better place for all of us. Until next time, Jarr, J.R. and I will sign off and tell y'all thank you for being with us. Until next time, uh with Unpack with Ron Harvey. Y'all have a wonderful day.

SPEAKER_01: 51:04

Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron Unpacks Sound Advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are or the people you serve. Because people always matter.